Timing Belt this weekend

[BenjamminsFiat]

All,

I know there are a ton of threads on here about changing the front seals and timing belt and I've read them thoroughly. 81SpiderMatt's thread is the latest and I'll be reading it again before starting the work and maybe even printing it out. I sent out a long e-mail explaining the three areas I'll be trying to tackle this weekend, time permitting. Quickly they are:
1) Timing Belt and all front seals - This includes the cam wheels (gears). When should I take them off? Should I loosen them with the belt still on and tensioned? I'm replacing them because the originals on my '76 are plastic on the intake side and goofy looking (due to the air pump belt extension) on the exhaust side.
2) 95-Amp alternator upgrade - I've got everything I need I think. Super excited about this one
3) Exhaust upgrade - I picked up a 4-2-1 manifold and downpipe from another member (aren't Fiat group people awesome!?) and am looking forward to the performance upgrade AND taking care of oil leaks from the top two studs.

The main concern I have is with the tensioner bearing and seals, any tips on getting the old ones out and the new ones in? I'd hate to mess this part up. I'll continue to do more research before I start tonight/tomorrow morning. Without my local Fiat group and this board, I doubt I'd even try.

Wish me luck! I'm so happy to be getting this stuff done... woohoooo!!!!

Thanks
Ben

[TulsaSpider]

Do you have a 1 1/2 in socket and smallish gear puller? Impact? For the front main seal you will need the seal housing gasket as well as I cannot see you getting it out without removing the housing but I have not tried. same on the aux shaft housing. The process should be pretty straight forward. yes I would loosen things while the timing belt is still on.

[BenjamminsFiat]

1.5 inch socket: No, but I know I'll need it for the front crank and will purchase tonight

Impact Wrench: Yes

smallish gear puller: No, did not know I'd need it, but will get one. Would this be something autozone would loan out?

Aux/Crank Seal housing gasket: Had no idea I'd need this or what it is. I worked with Csaba at AutoRicambi to get my parts list together. I would have thought he would have told me I needed it/them. Anyone know of a good way of not messing up the current one while removing the seal?

This is exactly the kind of help/knowledge I'm looking for, thanks so much for taking the time TulsaSpider.

Ben

[majicwrench]

Aux/crank housing gasket....you do not need this. Seal will come out without removing housing.

Chain wrench is, for me, a must-have to remove crank bolt and to hold cam gears in one place when removing bolts. If you rotate cam gears trying to remove bolt yoiu can damage things.

[TulsaSpider]

Yes you can get a loaner, the blades should be small, there isn't much space between the housing and the crank gear. I have not tried to pull out a seal with so little clearance. What would be used to be able to pull the seal?

[BenjamminsFiat]

Phew!!! I'm so glad I'm not missing anything, that would have been a bummer. MagicWrench you saved the day. I've read enough of your posts on timing crank removal to know I need to get the chain wrench, I'll be purchasing/borrowing one for the job. I should have listed it, I don't want people to have to repeat themselves. I really have tried to do as much research as possible.

TulsaSpider while I may not need those housing gaskets, you've at least pointed out that I better be careful when removing the seals. I'm also interested in the best way/tool to use to get the seals out easily. The pulley puller (lol) was a good suggestion also.

Do I need to get any grease? The tensioner bearings are sealed right? just tap them in? The seals should be lubricated with engine oil before going in right?

Tonight, I'll be typing up my procedure and getting started by cleaning up the engine as good as I possibly can. Also, I'll need to gather parts/tools. I expect that the meat of the work will be done tomorrow.

REALLY appreciate the last minute pointers. I'm so scared of the cams moving and bending things once the belt's off... actually, can I try to get the crank bolt off with the belt still on? Would I hurt something by trying this? You know, put the car in 5th gear; chalk the wheels, then go to town on the Crank Nut with the impact wrench? I plan to remove the radiator definitely and grill if need be.

[TulsaSpider]

I would loosen the crank nut 1st then aux and cam bolts. Yes lightly coat seals with engine oil. No grease needed. Good luck

[majicwrench]

Chain wrench is for holding crank pulley, no need to put it in 5th gear. And yes, go ahead and leave T belt on while loosening bolt.
Seals can be removed with small screwdriver or awl. Tap into seal and leverage it out. As was said, lube with engine oil, tap gently back in. You may have to gently work the lip of the seal over the sealing surface of the crank/cam. Just be kind and sweet to it, treat er like the old gal she is.

[BenjamminsFiat]

Thanks to both of you for the advice, I plan to start today. My order of parts was missing two Cam/Aux shaft seals, but I found them at a local O'Reilly.

Just be kind and sweet to it, treat er like the old gal she is.

Awesome advice, and it reminds me of when I was bringing the car home (I trailered it from Seattle, WA and then drove it from Vegas to home in Texas), when I stopped off at a Denny's somewhere in Arizona to eat at around 10 PM. A random guy walked up who used to be a certified Fiat mechanic when the cars were sold here in the US. Despite my being exhausted and hungry, we talked for a long time about the cars, some of his stories (We both had lived in Cincinnati, OH at one point) and other stuff. He mentioned how many blocks he'd seen cracked from improperly timed Aux Shafts after timing belt replacements, something I don't intend to happen here and will follow the procedure.
Anyway, I'll never forget the last thing he said to me. He was walking off, keeping his eyes on the car and he said "Take care of her, she's a sweetheart."

I'll never forget that guy, didn't get his name but knew I had to name the car "sweetheart". So thanks for the advice MajicWrench, I'll treat Sweetheart with the respect she deserves.

I'll keep you all updated as I make progress.

[KalamazooJohnny]

If you are typing up your procedure, I would be interested in reading it. I am currently in my research stage on this.
Also like to hear how things turned out and any suggestions/problems you may have encountered.
Thanks.

[BenjamminsFiat]

I have no problem doing that... anything to give back to a community that's given me more info than I could ever retain. I did start the procedure this weekend, but it's taking a lot longer than I expected just due to time constraints. I obviously haven't been working this entire time, lol.

It's super cool and fun if you're into that sort of thing. There are some frustrating parts which I'll be glad to point out. But overall, I feel like I've already won and the car's not even back together yet!

I'll try to post in-progress pics soon, either tonight or tomorrow.

[BenjamminsFiat]

In-progress update
I’ve been doing this job for the past couple of days. I had initially thought it would just take the weekend, but I’m deliberately moving slowly. Taking my time and trying my best to do it right. For those who are thinking of doing some of this stuff themselves, I’ve got two words for you:
DO IT
While I can’t predict you’ll have as much fun… heck I can’t even predict if my car will ever start again since my job is still in progress. But this whole experience has been awesome.

I really wanted to post a long thing detailing the procedure so far but I just got home from work and I want to get started and finish the job. So here are a few pics which might help. I’m still planning to detail the procedure I used, but not right now. If you have specific questions, I can probably get them answered quickly.

It's hard to resize these things to fit this forum's standard, so I did my best.

























Well, I’m on my way to go try and finish the job now.

Wish me luck!

Ben

[courtenay]

Ben - You might want to think about replacing the bolts that hold your water pump on. I managed to snap one of the old bolts off in the block when I replaced mine...leading to a real hassle!!

[Klayfish]

Ben,
Very cool. I would love to see a detailed write up. I'm in a similar situation. I'm trying to bring a '76 Spider back to life after a long slumber. The timing belt was off the car when I got it, but I'm trying to put a new one one, and want to change all the seals, etc...while the engine is apart. Everything I do is a new experience for me, as I've never done anything before. I've never used a chain wrench, so I'll have to even figure out how to use it, where it goes, etc...

And like you said, this should be fun. I'm having a blast so far!!

[BenjamminsFiat]

Just to keep everyone up to date:
I put it all back together, took lots of care to line everything up and make sure everything was perfect. Turned the engine over by hand, made sure everything was timed correctly, then the moment of truth.

It started perfectly, idled like a champ. I'm diggin' it.

HOWEVER, there is one problem. The belt wants to walk to the back of the car. The pulley's I received don't have that lip on them that keeps the belt in line. I was told that it didn't matter and I'm sure that's true on a perfect engine, but mine is still far from perfect. The belt walks, and for the short time I ran it I found some belt shavings toward the bottom of the front of the engine. Anyone have any ideas? I'm dying to take it out in this awesome weather we've been having! I'll search around on the board, but if anyone has any ideas, let me know.

I still plan to write up the experience so others can benefit, but until I have mine squared away, I'd hate to write it up and point someone in the wrong direction.

Thanks!