Have been a FIAT fan since I was a teenager when I owned a couple of beat-up 850 Coupes and a 128 sedan. After thirty years of driving other vehicles, I recently acquired a 1979 FIAT Spider 2000 project car as well as a 1973 124 Spider for parts. My plan is to make a nice car out of the two e.g. by putting the '73 bumpers on the '79, etc., but I'm not sure where to begin.
Would really appreciate advice on how to take stock of what I have (do I start with serial numbers and identifying engine parts?) so that I know what's worth keeping, swapping, or selling. For instance, would the 1600 be better to run in the '79 or should I focus on upgrading the 2000 motor? It would be great to hear from people who have done this kind of thing.
Thanks. Richard in British Columbia
Where do I begin?
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maytag
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:22 pm
- Your car is a: 1976 124 spider
- Location: Rocky Mountains....UTAH! (Not Colorado)
Re: Where do I begin?
Welcome Richard!
First things first: post some pics (of the cars, not yorself
)
There are plenty of folks here who can help you with the parts to swap bumpers & such. Motor-wise: are you looking for F.I.? or carbureted? what's your intended use for the car?
we'll help out as much as possible for ya.
First things first: post some pics (of the cars, not yorself
)There are plenty of folks here who can help you with the parts to swap bumpers & such. Motor-wise: are you looking for F.I.? or carbureted? what's your intended use for the car?
we'll help out as much as possible for ya.
I'm no Boy-Racer..... but if I can't take every on-ramp at TWICE the posted limit.... I'm a total failure!
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narfire
- Posts: 3959
- Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:14 am
- Your car is a: 1980 124 spider
- Location: Naramata B.C.
Re: Where do I begin?
Hi Richard... BC is kinda a big place. Where do you hang your hat? If you are anywhere near the Okanagan I'm going to be doing much the same with a 80 shell. My cars are currently in Summerland. Upgrade the 2L motor. The interior parts are interchangable for the most part.
Launie is in Duncan on the rock and is very well versed in these cars as well.
Chris
Launie is in Duncan on the rock and is very well versed in these cars as well.
Chris
80 FI spider
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
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RRoller123
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 8179
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
- Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA
Re: Where do I begin?
Welcome aboard!
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
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rolf
Re: Where do I begin?
Thanks for the replies and welcome messages. Sorry I've taken so long to post again - have been playing around two days trying to put up pics of both cars, but haven't been successful (even with the help of my tech-savvy son). Anyway, to answer a couple of questions: I'm located in Powell River at the top of the Sunshine Coast in BC, two ferry rides up from Vancouver plus a ferry ride across to Vancouver Island. Sort of remote...
About the cars: what I hope to end up with is a slightly custom '79 Spider that I can take for Sunday drives when the weather's nice - and show up to the local show-and-shine without being embarrassed! I'm not doing a restoration - that's why the '73 will be great for parts. The '73 came with an after-market hard top which is quite serviceable, so that's a bonus, and the top on the '79 is only three years old. (How do I post pictures? Uploaded them to TinyPic website but they still wouldn't post.)
By the way, where can you get parts for FIATs in Canada? To begin with, I need to replace the fuel pump, which should be mechanical, especially since it's carbureted, right? A PO had stuck an electric fuel pump in the trunk, but I burned it out by leaving it on the other night. It was hot-wired directly to the battery and I forgot to pull a terminal. (Dangerous?) Anyway, I would like to fix it right. Also the carb needs some work - it idles rough and can balk under load.
Would appreciate any and all advice, it's been so long since I've back-yarded. And I do want to put up a couple of pictures so you can see what I'm working with. Cheers!
Richard
P.S. I did succeed in adding a thumbnail to my signature. I think that's pretty good for an old guy like me. Now where is it?!
About the cars: what I hope to end up with is a slightly custom '79 Spider that I can take for Sunday drives when the weather's nice - and show up to the local show-and-shine without being embarrassed! I'm not doing a restoration - that's why the '73 will be great for parts. The '73 came with an after-market hard top which is quite serviceable, so that's a bonus, and the top on the '79 is only three years old. (How do I post pictures? Uploaded them to TinyPic website but they still wouldn't post.)
By the way, where can you get parts for FIATs in Canada? To begin with, I need to replace the fuel pump, which should be mechanical, especially since it's carbureted, right? A PO had stuck an electric fuel pump in the trunk, but I burned it out by leaving it on the other night. It was hot-wired directly to the battery and I forgot to pull a terminal. (Dangerous?) Anyway, I would like to fix it right. Also the carb needs some work - it idles rough and can balk under load.
Would appreciate any and all advice, it's been so long since I've back-yarded. And I do want to put up a couple of pictures so you can see what I'm working with. Cheers!
Richard
P.S. I did succeed in adding a thumbnail to my signature. I think that's pretty good for an old guy like me. Now where is it?!
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vandor
- Posts: 3996
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 1:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1971 124 Spider
- Location: Texas, USA
Re: Where do I begin?
Hi Richard,
Sounds like your car is drivable, that is a good start
You want to check all major components, body for rust (wheelarches, rocker panel, floors, esp behind the front seats), suspension for worn bushings, steering for worn components, driveshaft for worn u-joints, etc.
A place to start is likely a tuneup and fluid change. When was the timing belt last changed? If you do not know, change it. If it breaks, it can leave a big gaping hole in the engine block. Definitely check the magnetic pickup inside the distributor, the heat from the exhaust manifold destroys its wires. It is a tuneup item that should be replaced every 3-4 years.
You definitely want to keep the 2000 engine, it will make more power and torque. Depending on what you do, you may want to install the '73 head on it (assuming the engine is a 1592cc, 132 series), as it increases the compression slightly, and it does not have the emission passages of the '79 head. The '79 intake manifold and carburetor are total junk, if the 1600 has an open plenum manifold than use that, and an aftermarket carb, there are several available. Just that upgrade will give you a ~20% increase in HP.
I do not know of parts sources in Canada, most Canadians buy from US vendors, AFAIK, at least we have a bunch of Canadian customers.
Sounds like your car is drivable, that is a good start
You want to check all major components, body for rust (wheelarches, rocker panel, floors, esp behind the front seats), suspension for worn bushings, steering for worn components, driveshaft for worn u-joints, etc.
A place to start is likely a tuneup and fluid change. When was the timing belt last changed? If you do not know, change it. If it breaks, it can leave a big gaping hole in the engine block. Definitely check the magnetic pickup inside the distributor, the heat from the exhaust manifold destroys its wires. It is a tuneup item that should be replaced every 3-4 years.
You definitely want to keep the 2000 engine, it will make more power and torque. Depending on what you do, you may want to install the '73 head on it (assuming the engine is a 1592cc, 132 series), as it increases the compression slightly, and it does not have the emission passages of the '79 head. The '79 intake manifold and carburetor are total junk, if the 1600 has an open plenum manifold than use that, and an aftermarket carb, there are several available. Just that upgrade will give you a ~20% increase in HP.
I do not know of parts sources in Canada, most Canadians buy from US vendors, AFAIK, at least we have a bunch of Canadian customers.
Csaba
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver
http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver
http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
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rolf
Re: Where do I begin?
Hi Csaba:
Thanks for all the great ideas. Haven't had a chance to check serial numbers on the '73. Didn't know the 1592cc head would go on the 2L. Thought only the 1800 was compatible. Will check the intake manifold, too. What about the exhaust? And what kind of mods would have to be done to head gaskets, etc. to make things match up?
Obviously, I've got homework - and it's back to work tomorrow. But I will post when I get a chance to have a look. By the way, I was told that the engine had been "rebuilt" so I'm hoping the timing belt is new. How do I check, since it has been run for a while? And what gets forgotten - valve seals? - to make a rebuild push a puff of blue when you back off the throttle?
By the way, thanks for the advice on parts. It's just the shipping to Canada (and random acts of duty) that kill.
Richard
Thanks for all the great ideas. Haven't had a chance to check serial numbers on the '73. Didn't know the 1592cc head would go on the 2L. Thought only the 1800 was compatible. Will check the intake manifold, too. What about the exhaust? And what kind of mods would have to be done to head gaskets, etc. to make things match up?
Obviously, I've got homework - and it's back to work tomorrow. But I will post when I get a chance to have a look. By the way, I was told that the engine had been "rebuilt" so I'm hoping the timing belt is new. How do I check, since it has been run for a while? And what gets forgotten - valve seals? - to make a rebuild push a puff of blue when you back off the throttle?
By the way, thanks for the advice on parts. It's just the shipping to Canada (and random acts of duty) that kill.
Richard
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narfire
- Posts: 3959
- Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:14 am
- Your car is a: 1980 124 spider
- Location: Naramata B.C.
Re: Where do I begin?
Good morning Richard. For parts from a Canadian supply I've used Ital Motors in Edmonton, Fred and Mario Delparo have been involved with Italian cars since the 60's I believe. When you do get parts up from the states, ask the vendors to use the US mail. UPS to Canada is an absolute rip-off, they seem to dream up charges and if the parts are for personal use there is no brokerage fees but ups still charges them.
We have some ex Powell River peoples that live down the road a bit. Successful winery "Elephant Island"--fruit wines their forte.A faller friend might still be living on his boat there as well. Nice area, good diving I hear.
I have a couple of parts cars and might have some parts. I have a 1800 mechanical fuel pump for example, but I don't think they are compatable with the 2L.
Bruce (courtenay) lives accross the straight, he has a stock 81 I believe that is in great shape. Few others on the rock as well. Performance Parts, I think it was in Vancouver, sells webber carbs. Think I bought a 34 adf from them years ago. A great upgrade as are the 32/36 available from the vendors.
There is a car show in North Van on Fathers day I'm hoping to make if the weather cooperates, several others might make it as well. Last year there were several spiders as well as the usuall Ferarri's etc. French cars as well.
Oh yes..... GO VEE"S
Chris
We have some ex Powell River peoples that live down the road a bit. Successful winery "Elephant Island"--fruit wines their forte.A faller friend might still be living on his boat there as well. Nice area, good diving I hear.
I have a couple of parts cars and might have some parts. I have a 1800 mechanical fuel pump for example, but I don't think they are compatable with the 2L.
Bruce (courtenay) lives accross the straight, he has a stock 81 I believe that is in great shape. Few others on the rock as well. Performance Parts, I think it was in Vancouver, sells webber carbs. Think I bought a 34 adf from them years ago. A great upgrade as are the 32/36 available from the vendors.
There is a car show in North Van on Fathers day I'm hoping to make if the weather cooperates, several others might make it as well. Last year there were several spiders as well as the usuall Ferarri's etc. French cars as well.
Oh yes..... GO VEE"S
Chris
80 FI spider
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
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vandor
- Posts: 3996
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 1:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1971 124 Spider
- Location: Texas, USA
Re: Where do I begin?
Hi Richard,
> Didn't know the 1592cc head would go on the 2L. Thought only the 1800 was compatible.
It's pretty much the same as a 1800 head, less the air injection ports.
> What about the exhaust?
If you have a 49 state '79 then it should have the 4-into-2 exhaust manifold, so the only thing the '73 manifold would buy you is a cleaner look (no EGR piping). If it is a California car with the 4-into-1 manifold, then use the '73 manifold and downpipe, and ask an exhaust shop to re-route the downpipe so it fits the rest of the exh system.
There is a slight change that the '74 downpipe might hit the center link, as the 2000 motor is taller than the 1592. I had done this a while a ago, and it fit fine, but supposedly others had problems.
>And what kind of mods would have to be done to head gaskets, etc. to make things match up?
Nothing.
> By the way, I was told that the engine had been "rebuilt" so I'm hoping the timing belt is new. How do I check, since it
> has been run for a while?
It's pretty hard to check... it can be tears old and can still look pretty new.
>And what gets forgotten - valve seals? - to make a rebuild push a puff of blue when you back off the throttle?
Possibly, but leaky valve seals more often cause blue smoke on startup.
>By the way, thanks for the advice on parts. It's just the shipping to Canada (and random acts of duty) that kill.
Supposedly parts marked as 'Antique Auto Parts' get charged reduced duty.
> Didn't know the 1592cc head would go on the 2L. Thought only the 1800 was compatible.
It's pretty much the same as a 1800 head, less the air injection ports.
> What about the exhaust?
If you have a 49 state '79 then it should have the 4-into-2 exhaust manifold, so the only thing the '73 manifold would buy you is a cleaner look (no EGR piping). If it is a California car with the 4-into-1 manifold, then use the '73 manifold and downpipe, and ask an exhaust shop to re-route the downpipe so it fits the rest of the exh system.
There is a slight change that the '74 downpipe might hit the center link, as the 2000 motor is taller than the 1592. I had done this a while a ago, and it fit fine, but supposedly others had problems.
>And what kind of mods would have to be done to head gaskets, etc. to make things match up?
Nothing.
> By the way, I was told that the engine had been "rebuilt" so I'm hoping the timing belt is new. How do I check, since it
> has been run for a while?
It's pretty hard to check... it can be tears old and can still look pretty new.
>And what gets forgotten - valve seals? - to make a rebuild push a puff of blue when you back off the throttle?
Possibly, but leaky valve seals more often cause blue smoke on startup.
>By the way, thanks for the advice on parts. It's just the shipping to Canada (and random acts of duty) that kill.
Supposedly parts marked as 'Antique Auto Parts' get charged reduced duty.
Csaba
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver
http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver
http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
-
Kingme2
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:04 am
- Your car is a: 1980 124 Spider
- Location: Calgary, Alberta
Re: Where do I begin?
Richard, welcome to the FIAT clan.
Czaba's correct... Buy from any vendor that'll ship by USPS, don't touch anyone who only ships UPS. I buy 90% of my parts from the US (bought a spare engine PLUS a spare tranny for less than a local guy wanted to sell me his used engine... ) and selection is much greater than Canadian-only.
I may even drive down just to replace the windshield
Ttfn from Calgary, see you on the twisty roads
Czaba's correct... Buy from any vendor that'll ship by USPS, don't touch anyone who only ships UPS. I buy 90% of my parts from the US (bought a spare engine PLUS a spare tranny for less than a local guy wanted to sell me his used engine... ) and selection is much greater than Canadian-only.
I may even drive down just to replace the windshield
Ttfn from Calgary, see you on the twisty roads
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil, we have decided to turn off the light at the end of the tunnel. We apologize for any inconvenience.
1981 Fiat Spider, all black... "Corvino", italian for the Raven
1981 Fiat Spider, all black... "Corvino", italian for the Raven
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courtenay
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 1321
- Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:41 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 Spider 2000
- Location: Courtenay, BC, Canada
Re: Where do I begin?
Welcome, Richard. As Chris (Narfire) mentioned, I'm about an hour and a half ferry ride away in the Comox Valley with my '80 Fi. I'm going to try to make the Fathers Day event in North Van - weather permitting. The only time my car has seen rain in the past 3 years is when I went to last years' FD event! I'm not anxious to repeat that.
I've ordered parts from Allisons, AutoRicambi and Vicks. As others have said, as long as they use USPS rather than UPS things go pretty smoothly. You can generally expect delivery will take several weeks, though, so don't count on any "emergency" repairs to happen quickly.
Cheers,
Bruce
I've ordered parts from Allisons, AutoRicambi and Vicks. As others have said, as long as they use USPS rather than UPS things go pretty smoothly. You can generally expect delivery will take several weeks, though, so don't count on any "emergency" repairs to happen quickly.
Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce Shearer
'80 Spider Fi
'10 Volvo XC70
'06 GMC 1 Ton PU
'72 Spider a long, long time ago
'80 Spider Fi
'10 Volvo XC70
'06 GMC 1 Ton PU
'72 Spider a long, long time ago
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rolf
Re: Where do I begin?
Hello All:
Thanks for keeping the advice coming. Buying American looks like it's definitely going to be the way to go for most parts. Went to my local NAPA today to check out fuel pumps - yikes! Cheapest one they had was going to be over $100 after the HST. The direct replacement for the one in my car was priced at over $150 with tax. Fortunately, this made me go back home and fiddle more. (I had been mystified by the pump because it seemed to work when I pulled it out and put it straight across a battery, but it wouldn't go in the car.) Discovered - almost by accident, trying to trace wires, etc. - that a PO had installed a little toggle switch behind the hand brake to shut the pump off. I must have bumped it climbing in and out of the car. Duh!
By the way, Bruce in Comox, my car is the one that was sitting beside the highway in Nanoose. If you have been down Island anytime during the past year, you probably saw it.
Starting to dig deeper under the hood. Haven't been able to get at the block ID yet, but the head seems to be off a 131. Also appears that old gaskets were used just about everywhere - or else things weren't torqued properly. And now I'm guessing that the smoke is a ring (without having checked the compression yet) based on the probability that someone pulled the head and didn't finish the job properly. Looks like I'll be rebuilding sooner than later... In the meantime, how much of that emissions stuff can I pull before the motor won't run?
Re the 1973: looks like it's actually a very late '72 and the motor all checks out to be the 1608. Is this a decent motor to keep? Would it power my '79, or would I want to just swap heads and manifolds? Or is this engine an oddball that is not compatible?
By the way, Ttfn from Calgary, the windshield on my '73 is intact. I do hope to sell and/or swap parts off that car to finance the project. Would it worth my while to pull the windshield and take it down to the FD event - or is it one of those things I should hang on to?
Thanks again to everyone for all the help so far. I can see I've got lots of work to do before I'll be driving a FIAT to a meet. Cheers!
Thanks for keeping the advice coming. Buying American looks like it's definitely going to be the way to go for most parts. Went to my local NAPA today to check out fuel pumps - yikes! Cheapest one they had was going to be over $100 after the HST. The direct replacement for the one in my car was priced at over $150 with tax. Fortunately, this made me go back home and fiddle more. (I had been mystified by the pump because it seemed to work when I pulled it out and put it straight across a battery, but it wouldn't go in the car.) Discovered - almost by accident, trying to trace wires, etc. - that a PO had installed a little toggle switch behind the hand brake to shut the pump off. I must have bumped it climbing in and out of the car. Duh!
By the way, Bruce in Comox, my car is the one that was sitting beside the highway in Nanoose. If you have been down Island anytime during the past year, you probably saw it.
Starting to dig deeper under the hood. Haven't been able to get at the block ID yet, but the head seems to be off a 131. Also appears that old gaskets were used just about everywhere - or else things weren't torqued properly. And now I'm guessing that the smoke is a ring (without having checked the compression yet) based on the probability that someone pulled the head and didn't finish the job properly. Looks like I'll be rebuilding sooner than later... In the meantime, how much of that emissions stuff can I pull before the motor won't run?
Re the 1973: looks like it's actually a very late '72 and the motor all checks out to be the 1608. Is this a decent motor to keep? Would it power my '79, or would I want to just swap heads and manifolds? Or is this engine an oddball that is not compatible?
By the way, Ttfn from Calgary, the windshield on my '73 is intact. I do hope to sell and/or swap parts off that car to finance the project. Would it worth my while to pull the windshield and take it down to the FD event - or is it one of those things I should hang on to?
Thanks again to everyone for all the help so far. I can see I've got lots of work to do before I'll be driving a FIAT to a meet. Cheers!
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courtenay
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 1321
- Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:41 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 Spider 2000
- Location: Courtenay, BC, Canada
Re: Where do I begin?
Richard - I do remember seeing that car in Nanoose. Hopefully you were able to negotiate a better price than what they were asking - or the car was in a heck of a lot better shape than it looked!
Anyway, one of these days, we're going to do the big circle drive from here, over to PR, down the Sunshine Coast and back up via Horseshoe Bay and Nanaimo. I'll let you know when we're coming!
Cheers,
Bruce
Anyway, one of these days, we're going to do the big circle drive from here, over to PR, down the Sunshine Coast and back up via Horseshoe Bay and Nanaimo. I'll let you know when we're coming!
Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce Shearer
'80 Spider Fi
'10 Volvo XC70
'06 GMC 1 Ton PU
'72 Spider a long, long time ago
'80 Spider Fi
'10 Volvo XC70
'06 GMC 1 Ton PU
'72 Spider a long, long time ago