Brighter Headlights and Dash Lights (easy mod)

[nelsonj]

That looks like a good upgrade.

[2ndwind]

Hey Nelson, neat quick fix. But I can assure you running all that amperage through the ignition switch kills it eventually. I had already put a starter relay on it which made a tremendous difference but I think it was too late. I had the IAP headlight wiring upgrade in the box. Picked up 2 used ignition switches just for future occasion.

The car began giving me intermittent starting trouble and I was going to replace the ignition switch but it beat me to the punch. The switch died while the car was at the body shop. Luckily I was able to put in one of the used switches I picked up. I installed the headlight wiring upgrade as soon as I got it back from the body shop. Headlights like new, starts every time, and no strain on the ignition switch.

[surfingfreeman]

No need to change out the Fiat wiring, it works. Changing wiring harness a serious pain on any car. A few modification might be fun, but basicly it WORKS. And guess what, it is already color coded, look in any wiring diagram. Some very smart people designed the system.
Keith

Are you kidding? This has to be one of the weakest systems of the car!

[majicwrench]

I am not kidding. It's weak mostly because folks mess with it and try to change everything. It's weak cause people don't understand it.
I fix cars for a living and a huge part of my work is fixing what has already been fixed. And wiring, OMG tis amazing what people will do.
My 72 everything works cept the clock. No mods. Nice bright headlights. Been driving it all summer.
Keith

[seabeelt]

If you think about it (with a squinty eye), the fiat system is really no different than modern cars. wiring harness routed with items plugged in here and there. Just that we have 30 year old not so water/moisture tight/resistant connectors as today's cars. I have to agree with Kieth, clean up/modernize the connectors and you have a good functioning system. I would also agree that the headlight upgrade, brown wire fix and the turn/side light signal upgrades are nice as well. Otherwise I wouldn't touch a thing

[blurple124]

I am not kidding. It's weak mostly because folks mess with it and try to change everything. It's weak cause people don't understand it.
I fix cars for a living and a huge part of my work is fixing what has already been fixed. And wiring, OMG tis amazing what people will do.
My 72 everything works cept the clock. No mods. Nice bright headlights. Been driving it all summer.
Keith

What is your opinion on dealing with a car that has already been hacked to pieces? Where to go from here?

[fiat218]

I am not kidding. It's weak mostly because folks mess with it and try to change everything. It's weak cause people don't understand it.
I fix cars for a living and a huge part of my work is fixing what has already been fixed. And wiring, OMG tis amazing what people will do.
My 72 everything works cept the clock. No mods. Nice bright headlights. Been driving it all summer.
Keith

What is your opinion on dealing with a car that has already been hacked to pieces? Where to go from here?

Un hack it

[surfingfreeman]

Interesting article from hemmings on our cars, also supports Keiths statement about the electricals. I guess I became a bit jaded by an aftermarket Lada ignition switch put in b the PO that was a nightmare for me because it was very sporadic, and the grounding problems seem to be a major problem.
http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/200 ... uide1.html

[giuliot60]

Interesting. I don't know if I'm up to a complete rewire, but good to have the info. I'm going to install Auto Ricambi's ignition relay system first and see how that goes. Has anyone used it?

[surfingfreeman]

I have it but have not put it in yet.

[giuliot60]

Do you have a stock Fiat ignition or an aftermarket in your car Surf? There is a slight difference and AR's directions are for the aftermarket ignition, so I'm slightly reluctant. But really shouldn't be, essentially you're using 2 wires from the ignition switch, one for the starter and the other for everything else. Some of my reluctance comes from just using 2, why not 3? But if I go with 3, then I'll need to rethink the diagram/installation.

I've made a clear color diagram for the stock ignition/relay. If any one would like to take a look at it to see if it makes sense, feel free to comment on it, or wants a version of it, let me know.

Here is a jpeg of it.

[maytag]

If you think about it (with a squinty eye), the fiat system is really no different than modern cars. wiring harness routed with items plugged in here and there. Just that we have 30 year old not so water/moisture tight/resistant connectors as today's cars. I have to agree with Kieth, clean up/modernize the connectors and you have a good functioning system. I would also agree that the headlight upgrade, brown wire fix and the turn/side light signal upgrades are nice as well. Otherwise I wouldn't touch a thing

using this line of reasoning, our electrical system is not that different from your home, either.

Our cars' wiring is vastly outdated. the new technology is far superior. New methods are far superior. New materials are far superior. And the use of electronics and (yes, I know, bring on the hate) RELAYS in nearly every circuit has really helped modern cars. Our cars anjoy NONE of these benefits.

Will the wiring work? sure. Is Keith correct that most electrical "problems" are cause by somebody else screwing-up the original wiring? Yes. (well, along with poor maintenance) But does that mean that the wiring in our cars is "good"? absolutely not.
Look; there's a reason we modify. It's because we want it to be better than it was. Whether we are talking about brakes, suspension, engine, or electrical; we upgrade because we want it to be better than it is, and in many cases, better than it ever was.

When I used to teach motorcycle road-racing schools, we always taught (with our tongue in our cheeks) that they should think of a crash as an "opportunity to upgrade". The same can be said of our cars, and in particular the electrics. When something quits working, FIX IT RIGHT, don't just make it the way it was.
As much as I like to tease Keith about his near awe-like devotion to the Fiat-Gods he is right that they were pretty smart fellers. But they did not have available all of the technology and methodology and materials that we have available to us today. We cannot assume for a moment that those same smart engineers would design the same system now that they did in '72, or '76, or even '82.

As for the complete re-wire project: I agree with Mark and others: there is nothing painless about the Painless Wiring harness. When I looked at what was available from them and others like them, none of them would be a direct wire-in. they would all require significant modification and additions to work for what we've got. So I decided I would just start from scratch.
I built a new relay and fuse panel, using (gasp ) modern fuses and relays, and worked from there. I spent waaaay too long on it, and I'm still not happy with it. based on what I learned this time, I could probably do it in half the time on the next go-round, and it'd be a better job. I may decide to do that.... in 10 years. (ok... honestly, probably not. I'll probably sell it first, and the new owner can take it to Keith to work on and he'll be able to prove his point about how badly people screw-up the Spider's wiring )
But guess what? For the first time since I've owner this car, EVERYTHING WORKS.

[giuliot60]

Hey Nelson, neat quick fix. But I can assure you running all that amperage through the ignition switch kills it eventually. I had already put a starter relay on it which made a tremendous difference but I think it was too late. I had the IAP headlight wiring upgrade in the box. Picked up 2 used ignition switches just for future occasion.

The car began giving me intermittent starting trouble and I was going to replace the ignition switch but it beat me to the punch. The switch died while the car was at the body shop. Luckily I was able to put in one of the used switches I picked up. I installed the headlight wiring upgrade as soon as I got it back from the body shop. Headlights like new, starts every time, and no strain on the ignition switch.

I rebuilt my original/stock ignition using the mirafiori directions. It took me 3 hours (after assembling all the required parts) and I really took my time. It's been working like a charm, but want to also install the Auto Ricambi ignition relay set.

[majicwrench]

Well, this is gonna suprise maytag, but I am gonna disagree...
They had relays back then. And wire is wire. They choose not to overcomplicate the system by putting relays in everything.
What new technology is superior?? COMPUTERS.......oh my gosh what a wonderful thing. Other than that?? Modern weatherpack connectrors are nice, but not neccessary. Shrink fit tubing is cool.
Methods haven't changed. Electricity hasn't changed. Cars still use crimp connectors, just like old fiats. Look at the headlite connections on a 2000 Subaru headlight. Female spade, crimped, no weatherpack. And I fix plenty of connectors on modern cars every week that have failed from heat or abuse or corrosion. Somethings never change. Still fix ground issues, get em clean and tight again and they work for years.

If these cars get butchered, just put em back the way they were. There are nice, clear precise wiring diagrams on the web thanks to some of our best Fiat guys . If yoiu wish to butcher them, it's your car, go for it. But if you bring it to me, I am gonna take it back the way the Fiat Gods intended it.
Keith
Like I said, everything works in my 72 but the clock. And I didn't have to rewire it. Not sure how I got the only Fiat that seems to have reasonable headlights and wipers without butchering, er, I mean modifying the wiring. Oh, the LH TS doesn't always cancel, and I drive around with it on like a little ole man.
Um, wait, I AM a little ole man.......................
And grouchy sometimes.
Keith

[surfingfreeman]

Hi Giulio
I replaced the Lada POS ignition, with a used original ignition I bought from one of the members, problems all went away overnight.
Good luck!
Mike