1981 Fiat Spider won't start

[rjkoop]

So I finally got my Spider home but I need a tow truck to help me lift in onto my auto trailer to get it back to Canada. But it's in my garage. The car started fine when I 1st looked at it and even started fine about 4 days before when I backed it off the trailer for storage. But now it won't start. Here's a few details.
1. PO replaced gas tank - he said car wouldn't start until he replaced the gas tank
2. PO didn't drive much in the 4 years he had it.
3. Car will start sometimes, sound fine for about 2 seconds and then die.
4. No amount of gas on the pedal will keep it revving.
5. With boosting starter sounds strong.
6. I can hear the fuel pump going when I turn the key to on position.
7. It was pouring rain at the time and about 10 degrees.
8. PO put fuel stabalizer in gas tank.

I'm thinking about...
1. Bad fuel - how do you drain the existing fuel or examine to see if it's ok?
2. Plugged fuel filter
3. Plugged injectors - would injector cleaner help?

My plan is to perform general maintenance work on it and hope the work I perform helps solve the issue. So...
1. Replace all fluids
2. Examine spark plugs and replace
3. Replace fuel filter
4. Check distributor - have to read up on how to do this
5. Adjust timing
6. Add injector cleaner to gas - is it work removing the injectors and sending out for cleaning?
7. Replace belts if necessary - of course replace timing belt but probably not until after winter storage

I think generally there is lots of gunk in the fuel lines, filters, injectors and a good cleaning of everything will work. I also think that the general maintenance before winterize is a good idea. What do you guys think?

[rlux4]

I doubt if injector cleaner would work if they're plugged up to the point of not working.
You need to find out which part of the equation is the problem. Fuel, spark, injector pulse.
To check that you're getting fuel remove the line at the cold start injector and point the hose into a container, crank the engine, you should get a good strong stream. Be careful when you remove the line, if you're getting fuel flow it will be pressurized. I wrap a rag around it when I take it off.
Next check that you're getting spark at the plugs. Pull a plug and lay it on the engine where the threads are touching metal. Crank the engine. You should get a good "SNAP" and see the spark jump to the electrode.
Next check that the injectors are getting pulse signal. The best way to do this is with a noid light. These plug into an injector connector and give a good visible light when the pulse signal is there. If you don't have a noid light you could use a test light or a multimeter but the pulse is so quick and weak that I never had good luck with either. Noid lights can be borrowed from an auto parts store that has a loaner program
If these components are working it's gotta be timing (valve or ignition) but either of these is not likely as the car was running and it's unlikely either would have changed.
BTW, if you're not getting spark check the two small wires that enter the side of the distributor. (From the ignition control module). These can get frayed and cause a loss of spark.
Good luck.
Ron

[4uall]

I used seafoam and some FI cleaner http://wwwe.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopi ... t=+seafoam I also replaced my sparkplugs and wires (did not know age of either). Fiona became very responsive after I have not searched locally for a FI cleaner place I do not believe that the later models have a drain plug for the gas tank. I may suggest to siphone (?)

[rjkoop]

Thanks for the advice. I'll try the SeaFoam and/or the injector cleanup. Another thing I never checked was the amount of gas left in the tank. Gauge said 1/4 tank but maybe it's misreading and it's empty (siphoned out maybe while in unlocked storage near border)... I'll check.

Another thing I noticed is that when I loosened the gas cap there was a strong vacuum and it sucked in air for about 4 seconds. Isn't there supposed to be a vent somewhere to allow air to enter when the gas goes out? Although the temperature outside went from +40F to +10F. Maybe that explains the sucking of air.

I contacted previous owner (really nice guy - even offered to drive 5 hours and help fix it!) and he said that everything was done and it was working fine.
- stabilizer
- new gas recently
- fuel filter replaced
- timing done
- injectors cleaned
- new spark plugs
- fuel pressure check

I'll also check if anything happened under the car during transport but I don't think so. No smell of gas.

Richard

[RRoller123]

That 81 should be venting back through the carbon canister box:

[4uall]

could also be something as silly as a loose connector

[rlux4]

If your tank isn't venting it will vapor lock and the fuel pump won't be able to pump at all. If the pump is running for any length of time without fuel flowing it will burn out.
If you have gas leave the cap loose and see if you get fuel flow. If you do, you have a problem with the tank vent system.
Ron

[rjkoop]

Exactly what I was thinking... Thanks.

I checked under car and didn't notice anything that was damaged when the car was trailered here. When I opened the hood I did notice a few things...

Injector wire boots cracked/broken but wires still ok I think.


One of the distributor wires was off! Is that the main one from the ignition coil??? I have to check again!


I'm sure those things would have contributed to the issues I was having.

Richard

[divace73]

with the coil lead off you will have no spark what so ever....

[rlux4]

If you're talking about the cracked boot on the right side of your picture it's one of the temperature sensors for dash gauge. The main injectors are under the intake manifold and the cold start injector is on the front of the intake manifold. They have a different kind of connector.
If you're pumping fuel then you've found the no start problem with the disconnected spark plug wire. That's the coil high voltage wire.
Ron

[rjkoop]

My bad. Didn't realize those were the temperature sensors. At least you guys are nice about not making me look stupid.

That's why I love these forums. Helpful advice even when asking silly questions.

Gonna try starting the car tonight. I bought some seafoam and lucas injector cleaner. Should I use both or just the seaform now and then the lucas injector cleaner in a few months?

The seaform mentions about pouring into a vacuum line but you have to ensure that it is evenly distributed to all the cylinders. From their website...
---
SLOWLY POUR 1/3 to ½ can of Sea Foam down the carburetor throat or into any main manifold vacuum line that DISTRIBUTES EVENLY TO ALL CYLINDERS. Note that some newer induction systems, like those found on Vortec and Subaru “H” style engines, do not have any vacuum line that distribute evenly. Consequently, this process should only be attempted by technicians with a comprehensive understanding of the engine’s induction system or use Sea Foam Spray through the throttle body (discribed in a different section of this web site).
---
What line should I use? Or should I just add it to the gas? They say you can do that too.

Richard

[RRoller123]

First thing my old professor taught us on day one: There are no stupid questions.

[4uall]

I put in engine, brake booster and gas tank

http://forum.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtop ... &sk=t&sd=a

#3 is booster hose

[rjkoop]

It's alive! It was the distributor wire (duh!). Here's a link to a video of it running.

http://youtu.be/DkDtqYHzgCc

Sounds great, revs well, no visible leaks, coolant looks clean, temperature goes up to 190 and fan comes on. Yes!

The video sounds noisier than it is in person. On the video it sounds like it needs a valve adjustment (?) but in person it doesn't sound bad at all. It's idling a bit over 1000 rpm but this should be an easy adjustment.

Thanks to everyone that helped on these forums. Gives me a real sense of comfort knowing there are people on these forums who are willing and able to help.

Richard

[4uall]

AWESOME!