Sons new car overheats

Maintenance advice to keep your Spider in shape.
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seabeelt
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Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
Location: Tiverton, RI

Sons new car overheats

Post by seabeelt »

My son Peter took the leap and purchased his first car. A 79 spider :mrgreen:
Car looks to be in great shape. New paint, very minor surface rust , relatively new vinyl interior. Starts right up when warm and with a little coaxing when cold. When we test drove the car, the temp gauge stayed at 190 and radiator fan came on as usual. After getting the car home and taking it for a longer drive, the car starts to overheat. At fist we thought that the rad fan sensor had gone kaput, tested it in hot water and it worked fine, next was the thermostat, pulled that out and tested in a pan of hot water. It starts to open at about 180 deg (measured with an infrared thermometer). So we reinstalled that component. Radiator looks to be clean, at least from the few core holes you can see from the rad cap. Have burped the cooling system a couple of times, both at the coolant "T" and the flush tee at the top of the heater hose. The system seems to take quite a long time to come to temp at the bottom of the radiator, even though the thermostat opens as it should. Coolant will boil into the overflow tank, almost as if the system still has to be burped. If after overheating, you open the rad cap or coolant tee, the rad looks full and maybe need to add just an ounce or less at the tee. Yesterday, took the car for a short drive, temp stayed between 200 to 240, as we pulled back into the drive, the heater went totally cold. No heater core or valve leaks that we can find, and coolant was boiling in the overflow tank. When loosening the coolant tee, air escaped. I would hate to think that there is a head gasket leak. ( no coolant in the oil or the other way around)

Any thoughts here , number one son is quite bummed
R/
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
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4uall
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Your car is a: 1980 Fiat Pininfarina Spider 2000 F.I.
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by 4uall »

Congrats to your son :mrgreen:

I had a similar problem shortly after getting Fiona. See here http://wwwe.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopi ... on#p151872

Hope it helps :wink:
Jay

Fiona
1980 FI 2000 Spider
ITZEBTZE

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FINN (FN-2187)
2014 Jeep Wrangler Sport
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seabeelt
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Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
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Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by seabeelt »

Thanks Jay. Didn't check that, maybe Wednesday after work. I just can't figure how its getting air in the system, even a small amount and why the heat would all of the sudden go cold unless there was no coolant in the heater core.
R/
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
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RRoller123
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Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
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Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by RRoller123 »

Make sure when burping it that the heater is on fully, i.e. valves open.
'80 FI Spider 2000
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seabeelt
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Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
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Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by seabeelt »

Thanks Pete, heater has been wide open the whole time because of the frosty temps. The heat also doesn't seem to be as warm as I remember, maybe I'm just getting older, Since I'm getting ready to do the valves on the 71, I don't have ours up and running for a comparison. It was disconnected by some PO, so I suspect bad heater core or valve or both in that case.
R/
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
So Cal Mark

Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by So Cal Mark »

sounds like a plugged radiator
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seabeelt
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Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
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Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by seabeelt »

Is ther some sort of flow test that can be done to make that determination, without totally removing it from the car? The auto trans lines are a pain.
R/
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
So Cal Mark

Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by So Cal Mark »

I'd use a laser temp gun and check temps across the radiator before pulling it
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seabeelt
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Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by seabeelt »

My son took the car to a radiator shop. They did an exhaust gas test and got a positive result for the test. Radiator looked fine. Guess we are pulling the head to replace the gasket next weekend. Too bad the garage isn't heated, but he will get some good experience working on the car
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
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seabeelt
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Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
Location: Tiverton, RI

Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by seabeelt »

Update on my sons car - we replaced the head gasket and a bunch of other seals and gaskets including the oil pan and (aux shaft courtesy of Dad). Got it all reassembled after fishing the aux shaft piece out of the oil pan and it wouldn't start. Poked around a bit and found one of the wires off the coil, also found that the magnetic pick up wire was rubbing bare on the inside of the distributor. Next issue was that it ran poorly due to a buggered hose coming off the front of the intake manifold. Hose was split and the PO had some type of rubber plug jammed into then manifold and then the hose over that. Jury rigged that to seal it up until he can get some new hose. Replaced the hose going to the brake booster for the same dry rot reason. Anyhow, car still runs a little hot, around 200 deg. Rad fan kicks on and off like it should (improvement to pre repair conditions) and have burped it 3 - 4 times. Used a infrared thermometer on various pieces parts and up and down the radiator. temps vary, 180 or so on the hoses, 195 - 200 at the top of the radiator, 190+ at the bottom of the radiator, Starting to wonder if the sensor is a little off, or is it correct given the input temp to the radiator. My son decided to take it to work today and I don't have any feedback as to how it is running otherwise. Could be running a little lean but the car fires up with only a couple af revolutions when cold and almost as soon as you touch the key when warm. Guess we need to get out the timing light and do some basic checks on that end as well.

Any thoughts out there as to why its still a little warm???
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
TimpanogosSlim
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:45 pm
Your car is a: 1977 124 Spider

Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by TimpanogosSlim »

you said the thermostat "started to open at 180"?

My old thermostat did that too, except it never got past starting to open when i tested it on the stove. Replacing it with a new one that opens all the way cured my overheating problem.

Did you wait to see if it opens all the way?
TX82FIAT
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Your car is a: 82 Fiat Spider 2000 CSO
Location: San Antonio

Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by TX82FIAT »

Assuming you are not running too lean heating the entire system. Since you have replaced gaskets and had the rad tested, is the coolant still boiling into the overflow? It is normal on some of these cars to climb into the 200-205 range when stuck at a stop light for a few minutes on a hot day. I think you said you are running it in frosty temp with the heater on. In theory, that should help you maintain at or below 190 since the heater with the fan on is cooling as well. If the system is burped and has the proper fill level I would lean towards a restrictive flow at some point in the system. Hope it is not corrosion in the block. Did any junk (goo/corrosion/particulate/heavy rust colored coolant) come out in the coolant from the engine block coolant plug when you drained and flushed the system?
Buon giro a tutti! - enjoy the ride!

82 Fiat Spider 2000
03 BMW M3
07 Chevy Suburban
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seabeelt
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Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by seabeelt »

When we tested the thermostat, it opened all the way, but seemed to me that it should have opened fully a little sooner than it did. I have a spare new one somewhere, so we can try that. When my son took the car to the radiator shop, they didn't actually test the radiator, but checked for exhaust gasses in the coolant as a first step. Since the test was positive, they didn't test any further. Based on that diagnosis and the fact that the car was boiling coolant to the point that there was none circulating to the heater core,we replaced the head gasket. Checked the head for warping when we had it off and it seemed fine using the straight edge diagonal test in the service manual. We didn't drain the block when we did the repair, but coolant from the radiator and hoses all looked clean, i.e. no contaminants or sludge type stuff. Spun the water pump just to make sure there was some movement in the coolant while we had the head off and you could see in the block. That seemed OK as well. Coolant is not boiling into the overflow at this point

Here are some of the avenues of thought

There is still a small coolant leak somewhere so that the cooling system isn't getting quite to pressure

Running lean - timing issue

Poor functioning thermostat

Partially plugged catalytic converter, but car seems to have decent power

New head gasket leaking - really don't like to think about that one

Partially plugged radiator - may need a flow test from the radiator shop
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
So Cal Mark

Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by So Cal Mark »

were you able to find the spot on the head gasket where the leak occurred? Was the head checked for cracks?
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seabeelt
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Re: Sons new car overheats

Post by seabeelt »

Mark, The old head gasket came off in a couple of pieces around cylinder number 4, meaning that the gasket was stuck to the block and head in that location, so when we took the head off, the gasket tore. Therefore hard to tell exactly where the leak was happening. I'm only postulating that it was around cylinder 4 based upon visual inspection and condition of the head gasket in that area. One thing that was somewhat odd was that none of the head bolts had the same torque. Some were in really tight and others really loose ( 20-30 ft-lbs ish) Cylinders 2 & 3 looked cleaner than the rest, but I am assuming that has more to do with the air ports that are in that area of the head. Number 4 looked cleaner than number 1, but not as clean as 2 and 3. We didnt have the head magna fluxed, but did a pretty good job cleaning it up for reinstallation ( had to get all the silicone off the valve covers, head and head bolts where PO had done some oil leak sealing). The actual head surface looked pretty clean, again except near number 4. Carefully scraped all of the old gaske off with a sharp wide wood chisel that I keep in the garage for just that purpose. Didnt see any cracks, nicks or dings in the head on th bottom side nor top. Did find a crack in the valve cover top on the exhaust side where someone had overtightened the hold down screws and used red rtv to seal the crack. Replaced that with a spare.

Son didnt drive the car much yesterday - took my wifes car to work, however today he made the 40 mile trip and reported this noon time that there now is a coolant leak (wasnt one before that he noticed) coming from under the dash (heater core or valve - not sure just yet until we can take a look) and an oil leak on the exhaust side cam at number 1 cylinder near the plug.
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
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