A sort of transmission restoration

[hamlet]

Hey folks,

I'm moving into a new place and I'd like to take advantage of it by using the garage and driveway to fix the worn ring gear, but I figure I might as well replace the flywheel and clutch, since the clutch is probably original and a ring gear costs about as much as a flywheel. While I'm doing this, I figure I should give the transmission a look and take care of the likely worn second gear synchro and any other problems in the transmission.

Here's my plan: Drain the transmission. Get the car up as high as possible and drop the transmission. From here I'll be able to inspect the ring gear, clutch and transmission.

--What are the thoughts on removing the transmission?
--If my ring gear is bad, where can I get a new one? Or can I just get a new flywheel with a ring gear on it? It appears that replacing a ring gear is a difficult process.
--I plan on pouring over the transmission. Has anyone who's done that give me some insight into the mental state of it? I realize I'm opening a swiss watch pretty much, but it interests me a lot and I'd like to be able to shift more smoothly into second.
--For transmission parts, all OEM? or can I get the aftermarket synchros, etc.? I assume OEM, but I'm happy to hear opinions.

I'll think of some other things. Planning heavily for this.

[seabeelt]

A couple of questions to help frame a good response. First how do you know that the ring gear is bad/missing teeth? Via the inspection plate at the bottom of the bell housing? Second, yes you will need to drop the tranny to change the clutch and flywheel( with ring gear) if needed. I don't know of anyone who has changed just the ring gear or if its even possible on these cars. Third, what is wrong with the tranny that makes you think it needs a rebuild/service? Not a Swiss watch but rebuild able with patience, photos, tranny service manual and a couple of tools ( snap ring pliers, gear puller etc). There are plenty of examples on the forum if you utilize the search function to help formulate your question/provide answers plus all of the knowledgable folks residing here.
R/

[djape1977]

ring gear is a separate piece from flywheel so yes, you can change it, it's not too complicated. still, it's much easyer to swap a whole flywheel if you can source a good one.

[hamlet]

I believe it's the ring gear for a few reasons:

Car wouldn't start occasionally, so I put in a new starter -- a gear reduction one -- and it still won't start sometimes. I believe the ring gear being ground by the starter can be heard from time to time. To start it when it won't start, I'll put the car in fifth and push it a few feet, and then it will start. I believe a section of the ring gear is ground because of these things.

How do I source a new flywheel/ring gear combo? It seems to be hard to find.

As for the transmission, second gear has lots of trouble upshifting, and I'd like to at least take a look at it. Plus, I'd also just like to poke around the transmission. Very interesting to me.

[redcars]

If it is not up shifting good into 2nd you will probably need the synchronizer ring for 2nd gear and the synchronizer slider for second and 2nd gear. Go ahead take the trany apart clean it up and put in what it needs plus a gasket and seal kit. I would replace the needle bearing also. Cost about 250 if it doesn't need more. It will be a joy to drive.

[vandor]

Are you aware that to change even just a synchro ring, the transmission will have to be taken totally apart?
I just want to be sure you know what it entails It certainly can be a DIY job for someone with a little experience and some mechanical common sense. Oh, and a manual does not hurt either

[hamlet]

If it is not up shifting good into 2nd you will probably need the synchronizer ring for 2nd gear and the synchronizer slider for second and 2nd gear. Go ahead take the trany apart clean it up and put in what it needs plus a gasket and seal kit. I would replace the needle bearing also. Cost about 250 if it doesn't need more. It will be a joy to drive.

Great, thanks for the tip. I had already figured the synchro and second gear would need to be replaced, but good to know about the slider and the needle bearing.

Are you aware that to change even just a synchro ring, the transmission will have to be taken totally apart?
I just want to be sure you know what it entails It certainly can be a DIY job for someone with a little experience and some
mechanical common sense. Oh, and a manual does not hurt either

Yes, well aware, and I welcome that. Very interested in getting my hands on the transmission. Thanks for the warning, I do heed it.

Anyone have an idea where I can get a flywheel with a ring gear on it?

[djape1977]

How do I source a new flywheel/ring gear combo? It seems to be hard to find.

and your spider is a 124? 1600, 1800 or 2 liter? uses 200mm or 215mm clutch disc?

[hamlet]

124, 1608 cc, with no idea about clutch disk size

[vandor]

A 1608 should be 215mm with 10mm boltholes. Mark Allison may have some used ones. If you are on the East coast contact Danny at Fun Imported Auto 860-871-1990.

[djape1977]

it should be 200mm

[vandor]

Nope, the 1608 used the larger, 215mm clutch, at least here in the US.
Only the 1438cc engines used the 200mm clutch and the transmission bellhousing was different aswell, so one can't bolt the larger clutch to a transmission made for the smaller one.

Maybe the 125 sedans with the 1608 had the 200mm clutch, but we never got those here in the US.

[djape1977]

interesting.

spiders i have worked on so far, only 2 of them to be honest, were repaired over and over during their 40yrs life with what ever was available so there's no way to know what is stock and what not.

in europe, only cars with 1.8 and 2 liter engines came with 215mm clutch, others had 200 and 180mm. that's again on 124, 125, 131, 132...

any way, i do have couple brand new flywheels with ring gear already installed, both for 215mm clutch and with 12mm bolt holes, part number says they're for 132 2000 but i believe that they can be used on any fiat with 215mm clutch. however, shipping 15 kilos or so over half the globe might be unfeasable so try to source one locally.

by the way, i'll be rebuilding one 1608 over this summer and would like to hear what you guys have to say about it
http://fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23772

[vandor]

With a 1608 he'd have 10mm boltholes. The late 1800 and then the 2000s had the 12mm boltholes.

[hamlet]

I got the final bolt off of the bell housing this morning, but I can't get the transmission out. I think the problem is the Anza exhaust installed by the PO, which is entirely welded together, and probably is keeping the engine for tilting to allow the transmission to get out. So I'm thinking of removing the housing at the top of the transmission for the gear shifter, but I can't get it off due to what's inside. Any idea if this is possible?