What have I done?!

[rjkoop]

Argh! I was trying to retorque the head bolts on the exhaust side and the middle one broke.





I set the torque wrench at 40 ft/lbs and that was fine. Then I upped it to 61 and one of them broke! Did I read the manual correctly?



I assumed it was the M10x1.25 at 61 ft/lbs. Was this the wrong torque? The bolts looked in fine condition.

I'm wondering what my options are now? I'm thinking drill out old bolt end (ensuring I don't go too deep), tap and get a new bolt (or replace all of them). Or maybe drill and try a bolt extractor to get the broken off bit.

Should I still use 61 ft/lbs when I try again? Now I'm scared the others will suffer the same fate.

[seabeelt]

Hi Richard. Do not despair. This happend when we were replacing the head gasket on my sons car. You won't know what you really need to do to extract the bolt until you get the head back off. In our case, there was about a half of an inch of bolt sticking out of the head and we just used a pair of pliers to back it out of the hole. A smaller drill bit and easy out might work as well.

Just as a precaution when you go to reinstall, use a tap to clean out the bolt holes and then a thin rag on a screwdriver to wick up any fluids and collect the dirt at the bottom of the hole. We also ran the bolts through a die for a similar purpose of cleaning the threads.

The torque is correct. Sometimes the bolt gets weak from re-use, or if there is too much friction in the hole, it gets over torqued.

Let us know how you make out
R/

[rjkoop]

Hi Richard. Do not despair. This happend when we were replacing the head gasket on my sons car. You won't know what you really need to do to extract the bolt until you get the head back off. In our case, there was about a half of an inch of bolt sticking out of the head and we just used a pair of pliers to back it out of the hole. A smaller drill bit and easy out might work as well.

Just as a precaution when you go to reinstall, use a tap to clean out the bolt holes and then a thin rag on a screwdriver to wick up any fluids and collect the dirt at the bottom of the hole. We also ran the bolts through a die for a similar purpose of cleaning the threads.

The torque is correct. Sometimes the bolt gets weak from re-use, or if there is too much friction in the hole, it gets over torqued.

Let us know how you make out
R/

I wasn't actually replacing the head gasket. I mistakenly (I'm still learning) took those bolts out when I was removing the camshaft cover (because there was a leak there). Then afterwards realized that they weren't the right bolts to remove. So I never removed the head at all. So I'm looking for options where I don't have to remove the head. That sounds like a lot of work and a lot of components being removed. I'm just trying to finish my timing belt job right now.

[FiatMac]

..... So I'm looking for options where I don't have to remove the head. That sounds like a lot of work and a lot of components being removed. I'm just trying to finish my timing belt job right now.

You are going to have to remove the head to get the piece of the bolt that is still in the block out. Attempting to drill and tapp or drilling for an extractor with the head on even if it was possible is just asking for trouble.

[BEEK]

agreed, unfortunatly at this time, you have to remove the head. you might as well reseal it and possibly have a valve job done while its off.

[rjkoop]

agreed, unfortunatly at this time, you have to remove the head. you might as well reseal it and possibly have a valve job done while its off.

K. Will do. Looks like removing the head involves removing the 8 bolts (4 on each side) and ensuring that all connections to other components are removed. Can I remove the head with the fuel intake and camshaft covers still on the head? Or do I have to remove all the components?

Wow, this small oil leak has turned into a much bigger job! But that's how it goes and I am learning a lot.

[BEEK]

there are 10 head bolts , 5 on each side

[BEEK]

you do not have to dissasemble the head to remove it, the cam housings and covers as well as the manifolds may be removed with the head. just the head bolts, the timing belt and covers, and dont forget there is a support bracket for the heater pipe under the exhaust manifold that must be taken loose, i recommend just removing the pipe from the back of the water pump and the 13mm nut on the center exhaust stud, which holds it. those pipes tend to deform at the flange if pulled on. the rest is obvious, fuel lines, vac hoses and electrical connections. there should be a ground wire on the rear end cap of the exhaust cam housing, dont forget to remove that.

[rjkoop]

there are 10 head bolts , 5 on each side

Yep. I can't count!

[rjkoop]

you do not have to dissasemble the head to remove it, the cam housings and covers as well as the manifolds may be removed with the head. just the head bolts, the timing belt and covers, and dont forget there is a support bracket for the heater pipe under the exhaust manifold that must be taken loose, i recommend just removing the pipe from the back of the water pump and the 13mm nut on the center exhaust stud, which holds it. those pipes tend to deform at the flange if pulled on. the rest is obvious, fuel lines, vac hoses and electrical connections. there should be a ground wire on the rear end cap of the exhaust cam housing, dont forget to remove that.

Got the head off in about 30 minutes. Easier than I thought. I'll post a few pictures here in case they reveal something bad although the head gasket looked good, cylinder walls are smooth, etc... Broken off bolt (top flush with the engine block) can be kind of seen on the exhaust side in the middle.









While I have the head off you mentioned a valve job. By this do you mean a valve adjustment? Also should I clean the tops of the pistons and maybe other things while I have everything exposed? Trying to keep the costs down though. Don't mind cleaning / labour or minor parts costs though.

And Beek thanks for the tips on the pipe bolts and the ground. That helped. And there was a connector on the engine block on the intake side (under the injector area) that I didn't notice at 1st either. Think it looks like a temperature sensor or something. It came from the same wire harness that the injector wires came from. Or maybe that was the ground you were referring to.

[narfire]

Might be able to drill and try an easy out.
A good candidate for the welded nut process as well.
If funds are available, have the head gone over and change out the seals, valve and valve seats done. You will have to re-shim to the specs which is not difficult. perhaps others in the Ottawa area could point you in the right direction for the head work.
Welded nut:
http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... ck#p165926

About halfway down is a step by step how to do it. Have a bunch of damp rags near by when or if you use it.
Chris

[BEEK]

what i mean by a valve job is:

take the head to a competent machine shop, have the machine shop reface the valves and the seats, at the same time they will want to resurface the head. then you can reassemble the head and adjust the valves. this will bring back lost power in the engine. valve seal is where most of the power loss in an engine occurs

[rjkoop]

what i mean by a valve job is:

take the head to a competent machine shop, have the machine shop reface the valves and the seats, at the same time they will want to resurface the head. then you can reassemble the head and adjust the valves. this will bring back lost power in the engine. valve seal is where most of the power loss in an engine occurs

Yep. I know that's the right thing to do but I have to be careful with funds. I think I'll probably just clean, adjust valves, replace head gasket, head bolts and put everything back together.

Eventually I will get it done properly for sure. Maybe when all my kids get through university!

[BEEK]

check the cost of the valve job before you just put it back together, in my opinion, unless the machine shops in your area are over priced, its false economy to just put it back together without doing that work. just my opinion

[rjkoop]

check the cost of the valve job before you just put it back together, in my opinion, unless the machine shops in your area are over priced, its false economy to just put it back together without doing that work. just my opinion

I'll call around. I've just found some of the prices you guys are mentioning in the US are 5x as expensive in Canada for some reason!

Can you give me a ballpark figure on what I should expect for valve job and head machining so I know if I'm being ripped off?