Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

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76was124
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Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by 76was124 »

I'm afraid I know the answer here, but just in case I can avoid having to remove the transmission I could appreciate some advice.

I had bought a new throw-out bearing from one of the suppliers mentioned on this website. it was an ORAM that looked almost identical to the Original show in the pictures below. I later decided to replace the whole clutch and pressure plate even though it was in decent shape, so I purchased a Valeo kit which also included a throw out bearing as well (shown in the picture below.

I check'd the dimensions that would equate to the axial dimensions (width, distance between clutch end, and throw out yoke mounting groove, and they were the same. I decided not to use the one with the Valeo kit because it contained plastic, and figured the all metal one would be more durable. That may have been my mistake.

The symptom I have is that the throw out yoke doesn't seem to make full travel in the bell housing opening. I get over 50mm of total travel from fully retracted (toward the rear axel) until the bearing touches the clutch spring fingers. The manual says you only need 30mm of travel, but I run into an adjustment issue with the clutch pedal travel.

Even with the cable adjustment nut at the very end of the cable, (which won't apply enough spring pressure to retract the cable) when the pedal is near the floor the bearing will slightly touch the clutch plate fingers .

In the image below, you can see the diameters of the two throw out bearings is different, and that oversight might be the issue.

Am I facing a trans pull again and need to put in the Valeo throw out bearing, or am I missing something else?

-I check's the throw out yoke, it seems to be properly installed, and seated including on the pivot.
-Clutch cable is properly installed through the bell housing

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Image

Image
Last edited by 76was124 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:50 am, edited 7 times in total.
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azruss
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by azruss »

i cant see the pictures
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by 76was124 »

sorry, updated with direct link to images
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by 76was124 »

Couple more pictures showing fully extended and retracted yoke

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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by BEEK »

it is just a newer version of the same part.. the only things that matter is the actual bearing surface that contacts the pressure plate, and the distance between where the fork meets the bearing, of course the inside diameter too.
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by Exit98 »

Wow you sure cleaned things up good down there.

Sorry I don't have the answer to your question. I just did mine and used the Valeo I sourced from AR. My original turned out to be in good shape, my problem was a bad pilot bearing making noise. I was a little concerned with the plastic, and I could have just stayed with the one that was in there, but I figured new is better than old (?). I had no fitment issues.

I know this is a dumb question, but is there any chance you reversed the bearing? Don't know if that's possible or not, but considering how strightforward the installation went for me (I had good help) the problem you're having seems odd. Unless the bearing you installed isn't actually for a 124.
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by 76was124 »

Exit98 wrote:Wow you sure cleaned things up good down there.

I know this is a dumb question, but is there any chance you reversed the bearing?
Yeah it's squeaky clean,I had decreased it, then Jon at Midwest blasted it with walnut shells when he did a tear down inspection for me.

Throw bearing in backwards was the first thing I thought might have been the problem, but it's in the correct way (small end facing the gearbox)
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by 76was124 »

BEEK wrote:the only things that matter is the actual bearing surface that contacts the pressure plate
They are basically the same diameter at the contact point, my picture shows 47m in the equivalent of the bearing I used, but actually its leading edge that contacts the plate is tapered down close to the 43mm diameter like the one that came in the kit.

Thanks for the info..
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by djape1977 »

remember the ball shaped thingy screwed into the bellhousing on the opposite side to opening where clutch fork goes? you seem to have missed it when you installed the clutch fork.
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by 76was124 »

djape1977 wrote:remember the ball shaped thingy screwed into the bellhousing on the opposite side to opening where clutch fork goes? you seem to have missed it when you installed the clutch fork.
LOL, yeah, if you mean the pivot, that's installed, and the yoke is seated on it (clip underneath)....do you see something in the photo to think otherwise, or just suggesting based on symptom?
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by focodave »

Are you sure you have the clutch disc installed in the right direction (not backwards?)?
If so, I think you need to install the new throw-out bearing and it will probably solve your problem.
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

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focodave wrote:Are you sure you have the clutch disc installed in the right direction (not backwards?)?
If so, I think you need to install the new throw-out bearing and it will probably solve your problem.
High profile spring side of pressure plate is facing clutch cover as it should. Cover plate is fully installed flush .

I'm going to check the pedal to be sure something isn't wrong there..if not, looks like only option is to pull the transmission again and use the bearing from the kit.
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by engineerted »

I am not sure what the actual problems is but check that the cable is fully seated in the trans housing, and two, make sure the cable did not slip off the clutch pedal forks. Plus, is it possible that the throw out arm pins are not in the groove on the bearing?

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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by fiatmike124 »

Even with the cable adjustment nut at the very end of the cable, (which won't apply enough spring pressure to retract the cable) when the pedal is near the floor the bearing will slightly touch the clutch plate fingers
I am not sure if there is a problem. It sounds like you just need to tighten the nut. The way you have it you are mostly just stretching the return spring when you press the pedal. I think you just need to tighten the nut until the bearing is closer to the fingers. I literally just did mine a couple hours ago and was able to set it up so that the first inch of pedal movement is light resistance and then you can feel the heavier resistance of the clutch fingers.
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Re: Wrong Throw Out Bearing ?

Post by 76was124 »

fiatmike124 wrote:
I am not sure if there is a problem. It sounds like you just need to tighten the nut.
I had the nut loose and spring off just to make it easier to show the amount of yoke travel before contact with the fingers. I am thinking now you are right though in that there might not be a problem after all. I was concerned that the yoke was contacting too soon, knowing after the 1" of play, the pedal should travel another 3" to 4". Seeing there is no way the fingers would flex that much I figured something was wrong. I forgot about the 10 or so to 1 ratio of pedal travel vs. Yoke travel. I am hoping now it was my inexperience causing me to over-think it.

I'll hooked it back up and check it again with the pedal tonight.

Thanks for all your the suggestions everyone.
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