A sort of transmission restoration

This is the place to discuss restoration problems, post questions or projects-complete or partial.
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

BEEK, that worked like a charm and I was able to do it myself. Thank you again.

Any tips on inspecting synchros and bearings for wear?
BEEK
Posts: 1833
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:45 pm
Your car is a: 1975 Spider
Location: clermont fl

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by BEEK »

ill post some pictures tomorrow from work on what to look for
Automotive Service Technology Instructor (34 year Fiat mechanic)
75 spider
, 6 Lancia Scorpions, 2018 Abarth Spider, 500X wifes, 500L 3 82 Zagatos. 82 spider 34k original miles, 83 pininfarina, 8 fiat spider parts cars
son has 78 spider
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

Anyone? Bearing and synchro wear inspection tips?
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

Getting my parts in today and tomorrow. I inspected the bearings and didn't see anything alarming -- wear on the races, the bearings and casings. I'll reuse all of them, aside from the needle and pilot bearings.

Should I used anything on the gaskets when I seal the transmission back up? How about the seal on the crankshaft, when I replace the pilot bearing?

I'm also replacing my exhaust gasket, since I took the exhaust off and figure it's a good time to do that. Should I apply anything to that?
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

Putting everything back together, going well, when I'm install the fork shafts and the bolt breaks off inside. :oops:

What should I do?
vandor
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 1:23 pm
Your car is a: 1971 124 Spider
Location: Texas, USA

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by vandor »

Which one is it? I assume you now you can't pull the shaft out of the fork?

You could try spinning it out with drill set in reverse.

BTW, if it broke, you were trying to tighten it waaaay too much.
Csaba
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver
http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

vandor wrote:Which one is it? I assume you now you can't pull the shaft out of the fork?

You could try spinning it out with drill set in reverse.

BTW, if it broke, you were trying to tighten it waaaay too much.
No kidding. As I was tightening, I was thinking, "boy this is a lot for 14 ft lbs" and right as I thought that, SNAP. I've got the shaft separate from the fork, but I think I'll just buy a new shaft. What's the difference between the 1-2 fork shaft in the earlier 5 speeds and the later ones?
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

Also, I drilled a hole right through the screw with a cobalt bit, and when I got through the bit shattered. I put the shaft on a flame and it expanded enough to let the bit out, but I still couldn't get the remainder of the stud out with an extractor, putting a screw in from the bottom and drilling to the right, etc.

My concern with getting a new shaft is getting the appropriate bolt to go with, though.
vandor
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 1:23 pm
Your car is a: 1971 124 Spider
Location: Texas, USA

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by vandor »

Some earlier shafts had a hole through them for a 'bean' just like the 3-4 shaft. Does yours have this?
I have several used shafts with a bolt, email me if you are interested. $10+shipping
Csaba
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver
http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

Got the new shaft from Csaba, but I was still out a bolt, so I went and bought a m6 8.8 bolt that unfortunately doesn't have the threadless section on the top of the bolt shaft. Aside from missing that threadless section, it fits fine and secures the shift fork well. Will this be a problem?

I also lost a detent ball, and I was wondering if I could replace it with a ball bearing of appropriate size. BEEK, anyone? Thoughts?

I also have some play on the lay shaft. I haven't tightened the output end nut completely, but I don't think it will make a difference in the amount of play. We're talking about half a centimeter, and putting the bellhousing on doesn't fix this. What's the deal with lay shaft free play?
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

Ended up getting a detent ball from Csaba as well as another vendor. The one from Csaba was totally unexpected, as he included it with the bolt for the shift fork to replace the one I broke -- he must have read my posts and seen I needed one. What a guy!!!

For those of you who arrive here in the future, the layshaft play is taken care of when the bell housing is put in place.

I'm almost done with this thing, three months after I took it out, and I expect to have it all done on Saturday. I just have to take the transmission to my friend's shop so I can get the two bolts on the output side torqued high enough (can't do it without a stand). I plan to get this thing in on saturday, with part of my plan being to leave the shift extension housing off, and then putting it on once the bell housing is bolted up. This should make getting it in much easier.

If I hadn't run into so much trouble getting it out and then a bit of life going crazy, this could have been a two-to-three weekend project. I highly recommend it, though I still haven't put mine in and seen if it will work yet, but if it does work, what a great experience. I strongly understand the gearbox on this car, and I'm getting a fresh start on the synchronizing aspects of it. I only replaced the pilot bearing and needle bearing, because bearings are incredibly expensive, so fingers crossed that I didn't screw any up when I took this thing apart.

I also had the flywheel surfaced, put in a new clutch and pressure plate. I'm going to put in a new guibo and I've got the stuff for rebuilding the driveshaft, but I will hold off on that for later. I think this covers most of it. I just wanted to leave a good one for posterity, and I'll probably do another after installing with some more thoughts.
vandor
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 1:23 pm
Your car is a: 1971 124 Spider
Location: Texas, USA

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by vandor »

>with part of my plan being to leave the shift extension housing off, and then putting it on once the bell housing is bolted up

The front shift extension bolts will be a pain to get to with the tranny in place. I always install them with the extension in place, but no shift lever in the extension.
Csaba
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver
http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

AGGGH! I'm so close, but the seal I got for the input shaft must be for the wrong year, and it won't fit. In fact, I bent the crap out of it in anger trying to pound it in. Yes, I'm a gorilla.

There appear to be two variations of the input shaft seal, does anyone know which one is the smaller one? That's the one I need.

Otherwise, things are going great. Putting everything back in, and it shifts well using the engaging lever. Anyone know if you can get the driveshaft center bearing pressed in without a hydraulic press? I've heard some people say you can, but I don't want to get it apart and then find out I can't get it back together.
hamlet

Re: A sort of transmission restoration

Post by hamlet »

It runs! And well! Three things:

I left the metal band on the guibo. Scared the shit out of me when it decided to eject it self.

I destroyed the speedometer cable trying to get the transmission onto the bellhousing, and I now lack a working speedometer.

The transmission is leaking oil. I suspect it's from the extension housing, which I wasn't able to get the bolts on very tightly. Any ideas on how I can fix this without pulling the transmission?

All in all, a great ride. What a joy to have this thing back and running.
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