Front Crossmember Near Disaster!!

[Mark_vaughn]

My question for the collective knowledge base is:

Will lowering the x-member (and lower A-arm mounting) about 1/4 inch affect the front suspension and handling in any way?

Now here is the story:

I have taken every bolt, nut, screw, rivet, everything off the car and am left with a shell. I knew there was some issue with the x-member because of some welding up there, but I couldn't tell how bad it was.

I am going to box the rail in for about a foot and fabricate a new bracket on the crossmember to mount it. The new metal will lower the whole thing about 1/4 inch, which should help with 2.0L engine clearance. As for ground clearance, I would rather knock a hole in the oil pan than loose the entire engine and suspension at speed!!

Now here are the pics, but remember to give your thoughts on the original question.


Not a bolt left on it. It is resting on the side rail and door posts with wood blocks under it. It only weighs probably 300-400 lbs. I was able to roll it over quite easily.



General underside condition. I was going to have the whole thing sandblasted, but no one around here specializes in cars and I was almost promissed warped panels. So I am using chemical paint stripper and a pressure washer. I am going to apply Chassis Saver, which is awesome, then a spray-on truck bed liner product.



I just think these pictures look funny. I did put in more bracing and it is very sturdy sitting there.



This is the broken side of the crossmember. The other is fine and will provide me a template to go by for the fabrication. I am going to re-work both sides of the crossmember and frame rails.



Another pic of the bad side.



The bad side after I cleaned it up some and started cutting the lower section out. The previous fix had some good ideas, such as running the bolts all the way through the frame rail. I am going to build on this with reinforcements all around, including inside.

[Mark_vaughn]

Continued:

It wouldn't let me put all the pictures on the message for some reason. See the link below for all my pictures. The most recent ones are last.
Some of you may find it useful as I took pictures of nearly everything as it came off the car. Mostly to help me with reassembly.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/marksfiats ... 288110204/




Pictures are worth 1000s of words!! Everyone should post them when doing a project. I know I enjoy looking at other peoples problems, makes me feel better about my own Fiat!!

[spider2081]

I'm not sure what year your car is. My 1981 cross member has a spacer welded to it on each side. I thought all the 2L cars needed that spacer for engine to hood clearance. On your crossmember I don't see the spacer.

[brad131a4]

Mark ,After fixing one of my cars and a few others with the same frame issues as yours I found its best to leave the bottom frame rail in the same plane as it is originaly. If you ad a 1/4 inch of steel to it them the bolts that go thru the side of the frame will not line up with the nuts on the crossmember. Learned this the hard way. I wound up cutting out the section and welding in the plate so that it was flush with the bottom of the frame rail. By the way the bolts thru the frame is a fiat autherised repair for the frame bolts that become stripped or get pulled out of the frame. They also say to weld a plate on top of the frame rail to dispers the weight from the bolt . This is also how fiat strengthened the frame for when they rallied the spider also.

[robr]

On the subject of "this is a fiat authorised repair" and "this is how fiat strengthened the frame when they rallied the spider", does anyone have more information or documentation on this modification?

[Curly]

From the look of that cross member I'd be more inclined to find an undamaged one and use that, perhaps even strengthen it up a bit by seam-welding where yours has fractured. The damaged one you illustrate is in a very poor state and may have twists or other fractures that you haven't noticed.
Dropping the cross member 0.25" shouldn't make that much difference to the front end geometry, but as mentioned by Brad it will create an issue with the horizontal bolts that attach the ears to frame. I'd spend a bit more time reinforcing the chassis rails in a way that kept their original dimensions.
I run a 2L engine in SPYDUH with a standard 1976 CS1 1800cc engine crossmember. It also has a 2L bonnet fitted and twin sidedraft carburettors, perhaps because of that, I've not experienced any clearance issues.

[stefhahn]

Hi there -

a friend of mine has got a 124 BS-1, 1971 model with the original bonnet, a 2l with twin Webers and turtleback filter - clearance was no problem with the original x-member as he did use motor mounts that are not as tall as the original ones - to be clear: I mean these parts:

- it was a bit of try and error while putting the engine into the car so that the engine won't contact the x-member but it did work out finally.

Looking at your x-member I confirm previous opinions - yours looks far too rotty to be the part of choice. Your life is dependant on this part - don't compromise there....

As per sandblasting - to clean out the car and find what rust is where I would prefer blasting with dry ice - this removes everything but there is no risk of warping any part of the body.

ciao,
Stefan

[mdrburchette]

I'd call the vendors for a new crossmember. It seems either Vicks or IAP has them.

[Curly]

As per sandblasting - to clean out the car and find what rust is where I would prefer blasting with dry ice - this removes everything but there is no risk of warping any part of the body.
ciao,
Stefan

Good point ! Sand grains have sharp edges that etch the panels and create heat thus causing the warping. SPYDUH was blasted with plastic beads which have rounded edges and don't damage the panels. I've also heard of people using other media such as soda to good effect.

[mdrburchette]

Yep, we learned that lesson the hard way. My flat hood has a bit of warpage due to sandblasting. Another problem we ran into was there is NO WAY to get all that sand out of the nooks and crannies. After 13 years, I'm still finding sand.