Looking at a '70 124 Spider

[BritCars]

I'm looking at a 1970 124 Spider to replace my '80 Triumph TR-7, a departure for me from my usual run of British sports cars. I drove a very-used '72 Spider as a daily driver in Vermont for two years; it proved to be an entertaining car on its last legs.

I bought it when an errant driver T-boned my MGB one November at a traffic light. The B was totaled by my insurance company and with $1,200 in hand, I searched for another sports car. There was very little response to a "want ad" that I ran in the local newspaper, and then I spotted the Fiat at a Jeep dealer. It had three shades of orange paint, a cracked windshield and a removable hardtop. I found out it had been there for some time so I stopped in to look at it. The interior was complete, it started, ran and stopped, and looked shabby, but it seemed like it would be a reasonable daily car.

I told the salesman I would buy it but that my $1,200 had to cover everything, from the purchase price to the registration fee and VT sales tax. He hemmed and hawed and insisted he'd have to speak with the manager. He disappeared and I head a toilet flush; then he returned to say the manager had approved the sale. I then said the car would have to pass VT's inspection so he agreed to have a local glass shop replace the windshield. They were so eager to get rid of it that he loaned me an Opel for a few days while the windshield underwent replacement. After a few days I called the glass shop to ask about their progress and they said it was a bear to find 124 Coupe windshields (in 1979). I told him it wasn't a Coupe, but a Fiat Spider, and he replied "that's not what the dealer ordered." So I called the salesman to explain his mistake ["there's a soft top hidden from view by the factory hardtop," I told him]. He said to me, "You seem to know more about these than I do. Why don't you deal directly with the glass shop for me?"]. The windshield was replaced within two days and I had my first Fiat.

The Spider needed snow tires right away and of course I transferred my ski rack from the MGB. It did not handle snow as well as the British cars of my past as the engine had less torque at lower rpm, but it started every day in the cold Vermont winters and required few repairs. I remember that a brake caliper popped on the Bolton Valley Mountain road ["you really need to replace disc pads before they wear out completely," a mechanic taught me] and that we had to putty in one spark plug when a spark plug hole proved to be stripped by the previous owner. And the fuel line to the carburetor popped off every so often, spilling fuel over the manifold. A rotor failed on Cape Cod one day, stranding the car for a while, but otherwise, it gave me about 20,000 miles of entertaining driving. The cabin felt quite spacious, the heat worked ok, the steering wheel felt oddly placed, but with the top down, it was a terrific drive. Oh yes, I had to replace the window winder cable once [what a strange setup!] but that was the only interior problem. Two years later, I had the chance to purchase a rebuilt MG Midget so I sold the Spider to a mechanic eager to fix it up for his wife.

I've stayed loyal to British cars [except for my Corvair] but suddenly, this 1970 Spider appeared for sale at a low price. My TR-7 has been a pretty good car for the 70,000 miles I've owned it but I'm ready to move on. I've been looking at Spitfires and MGB's, cars with which I'm familiar and comfortable doing my own work, but a Spider intrigues me as an option. I have a mate who's a mechanic/body man [and very happy Fiat 500 owner] looking at it later this week [it's located about 100 miles and a 1.5 hour ferry ride from this island town]. As an aside, I would note that I don't own a "modern," so I expect that my cars will earn their keep at work and play.

Advice and counsel please - other than the usual very-used-sports car issues, what are the things that I should look for in this model of Spider?

Thanks for reading all this!

Jeff

[RRoller123]

Welcome aboard! That is a great story! You will find plenty of knowledgeable and friendly people here.

Here is a thread on how to post pictures directly to the forum:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21014

And here is another picture-posting thread:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... 12&t=23084


Pete

[TX82FIAT]

Welcome and good luck. A 70' is a good year from what i'm told. Has the car sat for a while? Before getting into the car the first thing i'd look for is rust. Take a close look at the front shock towers, floor panels, underside of car. The twin cam engines are pretty durable and if the car runs you are off to a great start.

Post a few pics so we can see what you are working with.

[BritCars]

Thanks for the welcome and for the advice on rust. I do have a friend looking at the car this week. He's a former body man and current mechanic; as we're both Corvair enthusiasts, too, he understands the importance of structural integrity for monocoque cars. My first FIAT had a lot of rust that came with the car and I would hope to find one without structural problems. I do prefer the earlier models with less emissions gear.

I'll post photos when he sends me some. The current owner says he doesn't have any [?!].

Jeff

[Exit98]

Jeff,

Vinalhaven, Maine. Just looked it up on Google Maps. Very cool. Must be quite a place, and a little lonely in the winter time.

So some guys get a hankering for a certain car and decide to buy it or not. Others decide they want a particular type of car then go on a search for just the one they are looking for. The point is the odds of one particular 1970 Fiat Spider filling your bill might be a strerch, but maybe if its cheap and looks OK and you like a challenge, well there you go.

But they made them from 68 to 85 or so and there are plenty of differences along the way. The late one's 80 and up have the fuel injection which for some is essential and takes care of a lot of smog issues. The 68 through 70/71 are the purest, and the oldest. Finding one with minimum rust is a challenge, particularly in the upper East Coast. Unless the 70 you are looking at has a later engine, which wouldn't be unusual, its got the 1400 cc motor. It's a high winder, but it's no stormer. I had the good fortune to drive a very good one just last week for the first time and except for cruising on the level I pretty much had my foot buried the whole time. No torque to speak of.

The 72/73 have the sweet 1600 cc motor and the pretty little bumpers. Nice ones are hard to find. The 1800 cc motor, from 74 till 79 or so, once the smog stuff is gone, is a terrific performer. I like mine just fine. The big bumpers are ugly but there's things you can do.

Anyway, thanks for the story. Check out the GT6 vs Spider link. I just don't think Brit cars can compete with the Spider.

Good luck and report back.

[BritCars]

Thanks for the observations, Doug.

I do recognize that 1438cc's putting out 96 HP while trying to move 2100 lbs of car will be working hard; that said, with its good handling, once up to speed it should be able to hold its own on winding roads. My '72 had the 1608 cc engine and it felt somewhat leisurely on acceleration but it kept up on the interstates and certainly ran well on Vermont's twisty roads. I do need a car that I can use for work trips off island, too, so any classic sports car needs to earn its keep. I'm not in a hurry so if this one is too far gone for its price I can look further afield.

There was a summer resident with a '78 - '80 Spider, in really nice shape, for several years before he purchased an Alfa Spider instead. Otherwise you just don't see Fiat Spiders. Generally speaking our island roads work against having something too low to the ground (last summer I saw a newer Porsche and a Miata on the island). My TR-7 handles these roads much better than my Spitfire did (as it used to bottom out during frost heave season) so I'm anticipating the a Spider would be fine here. You also have to be careful with extreme high/low tides when driving on or off our ferry - it's easy to scrape an exhaust on the metal ramp.

Vinalhaven has 1100 people year round and about 3500 during the peak summer months. The daytime-only ferry run takes 1.5 hours [15 miles or so]. Most everyone here fishes commercially or helps maintain summer houses for their living. We don't have that many miles of roads [the island is about 10 miles long and 4 miles wide]. I've been living and working here for 21 years and still really enjoy it.

Jeff

[BritCars]

An auto-knowledgeable friend [and President of Dirigo Corvairs, our state's Corvair club], went to see the Fiat 124 for me, took a drive, and sent these photos. They certainly show rust, some bodging and minimal care, but the test drive went very well and the car drove and rode quite smoothly.

http://s81.photobucket.com/user/4carbco ... Fiat%20124

Any advice and counsel about this one?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Exit98]

Jeff, you're a car guy and you know what you're willing to get into. The car's pretty ragged. You had a car guy friend check it out so you know it runs OK but you really don't want to pull the trigger until you're sure about the shock towers. If they fail, and rusty one's do, the car is scrap. And there is a safety issue too.

You can get a top for $250 or so if the rack is good. The front piece is prone to rust though so if its bad you have to source another one before you can get the new top on. The exhaust is hanging and I saw some tin straps underneith.

Very likely there are holes in the floor. The bigger problem there is if the areas around the seat rails are bad. Again, a real safety issue. The factory covered the floors with a layer of tar which drys out and lets water underneith so a quick look can be deceiving. The floor behind the front seats is where the body anchors are for the real trailing arms. Rust there ain't good.

Be careful and good luck.

[BritCars]

Doug,

The shock towers are good and yes, there's rust under the seats. I will ask him about whether the seat tracks had rust beneath them, too. Your points on the rear trailing arms were well stated - that's something I need to explore further or confirm with the fellow who viewed the car.

Who sells the tops?

The car looks like a wiring headache as the current owner and/or dreaded P.O. "fixed" the wiring - but few of the electrics work properly right now. Who supplies wiring harnesses?

Thanks for the observations. The current owner wants $2,500, which seems high for the condition of the car. What do you think?

Jeff

[narfire]

Not sure what the budget is, but a number here and myself will recommend purchasing a Fiat spider as rust free as possible as the mechanicals are not too difficult to deal with. These cars are fairly reliable but you do need to stay on top of the snags that crop up time to time.
Check the usual suspects (Craigs list etc. and international auto parts classifieds)
I sold a 81 FI a few years ago for $4000.00 and it was in great shape without rust. The new owner drove it for two years without issues other than oil changes.
I chased rust down in a 72 to a point I ended up cutting the front off and spliced a front from a 79 on....
Like the west coast(Vancouver BC-Seattle area anyway), I hear the winters out east can be hard on these cars if they were driven year round.
Chris

[RRoller123]

I agree. My 80FI was an absolute mess when bought it, but had absolutely NO rust, so I paid quite a bit for it based upon its appearance. But I don't regret it for a second. These are pretty easy to work on and to sort out the various issues, but I have no skills or inclination to learn how to repair major rust issues, so I would say definitely search until you find a relatively rust free one. They are out there, but it certainly takes some digging.

[2ndwind]

Jeff,
The '70 is a classic, of course, but I agree with the others. I'd rather have a rust-free mechanical/electrical mess to deal with AND I CAN WELD! I wouldn't pay more than $800 for that car IF I even wanted it. You will have more than $10,000 in it to make it nice. For a rusted, eat up interior, drive-it-now, park under cover, beater that you have no intention of fixing up, it would be acceptable otherwise keep looking.

BTW, in the middle to late '80s I had 3 Corvairs at the same time: a '63 convertible 95hp w PG bought at a police auction for $51. It was a fair car that I spent tons of time and $$ on. 2) '66 coupe 110 w PG bought at the same auction for $125 good runner, love the body style but hate the PG 3) One of my favorite cars ever '64 coupe 110, 4spd. paid $150 replaced the driver's wheel bearing and axle, and a headlight. Ahh that was a car. Had it for 4 yrs only left me stranded for about 1 hr. while I walked to the nearest parts store for a new fuel pump, got a ride back and away I went. I sold it for 3 reasons. I got married adding a 7th car to my fleet, moved to a smaller property, and fell in love with air-conditioned Toyota Celicas.

I had a friend with a Rampside, Greenbriar, Spyder, Lakewood, and 4 coups. I'm not interested in the Spyder's finicky and expensive turbo. Iffy about the poorer gas mileage from the Corsa. Lately, Ive been dreaming about a '65-'66 110 4spd.coupe like you have. But that will have to wait until I successfully repair the RUST, RUST, RUST and drive my 15 year old"s '66 C10 fleet-side out of the garage.

[BritCars]

Thanks, everyone, for your sage advice. The owner and I are negotiating tomorrow about his asking price; I'm prepared to walk away should he be insistent about the $2,500 asking price. Given the condition of the car it's simply too much. He's confusing sweet running [when you don't need lights or wipers ] with a "good deal."

As for my Corvair love, here's a page from my website with a couple of Corvair stories. http://www.landroverwriter.com/thesport ... monza.html

No Powerglide for me, either! And the '64 was the best of the "early models."

Jeff

[BritCars]

Just a quick note to thank everyone who read my post and offered their advice. Based on the responses I called the owner, intending to offer a much lower amount. He immediately said his price had dropped to $2,000. That's still too high for me given the work required to bring the car up to a reliable daily driver.

Unless he agrees to a much lower price I'll keep looking. I must say there are few in New England for sale right now .

Thanks again,

Jeff

[Exit98]

Hi Jeff,

Good decision. If you definitely want a Spider and you don't need it now, time is on your side. I watch the listings all the time and you are right there doesn't seem to be any nice ones on the upper east coast right now. Earlier this year there were a couple nice looking ones in the Hartford area but I haven’t seen them in a while. But they are around and sooner or later you'll find one you like.

I spent 6 months, travelled to five states to look at cars and finally ended up getting mine in California off eBay. Shipped it back here for about $900. Granted I was lucky, and stupid, to buy it sight unseen but it sure has turned out great. My neighbor just bought his about a month ago from a guy about 15 miles from us. An original low mileage rock solid 76 the guy bought from the original owner in California and had it shipped back East.

A few months ago our NJ Fiat guru Ralph (lanciahf) found a 69 sitting in a garage for 20 some years. Bought it for $500. No rust and the original orange paint buffed out. Bumpers polished up. Granted he rebuilt the 1400 cc motor but it runs like a charm.

Point being yours is out there somewhere. Part of the fun is in the journey.