Hi From AZ

[Jerstee]

Hi- I joined the fiat forum in hopes of getting some great ideas in finding a final "fix" for my poor engine so that I might be able to go on one of the fiat rally races

[azruss]

welcome. there are a few of us desert dwellers on this site. Where are you located.

[Jerstee]

I am down South of Tucson towards Sierra Vista, but I go back and forth. I have a lovely fiat that has had only one previous owner with 40k original miles on it and all the original paperwork down to the original bill of sale when it was shipped to the U.S. The sad situation is, is that my poor dream car has spent more time at the mechanic instead of with me for an unexplainable oil leak. It has passed all of its pressure tests, had all seals replaced because of the dry climate, but to no avail, this poor car is still not being the driver it should be. In fact, I allowed my former mechanic of a boyfriend take the car for a test drive and now the car will not restart at all. We are considering a possible rebuild because I am so attached to the engine considering it a part of history and all that, but I keep getting nagged that it will never be reliable. This CANT be true can it? So the following suggestions were made to swap the engine with a Honda s2000, or Toyota engine to resolve the issue. If this were to happen- I have concerns that I will no longer be able to show my next to mint condition car or enter the fiat club rally races. Insights on this would be wonderful before I proceed. I would love to prove the guys wrong... I have been turning wrenches on my little red number all by myself and trying to teach my son about the appreciation of a long sought after dream car.
Whoever assists me with this, I will greatly appreciate it and when I get it going again- I will gladly post a picture of me and my car

[RRoller123]

Welcome aboard! Once sorted, these are fine, very reliable cars.

You will find plenty of knowledgeable and friendly people here.

Here is a thread on how to post pictures directly to the forum:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21014

And here is another picture-posting thread:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... 12&t=23084


Pete

[SunnySideUp]

Welcome aboard, Jerstee! There's a few classic Fiat owners around Tucson \ Sierra Vista that may be able to help assess the runability issue and oil leak before you do some thing drastic like a non-Fiat engine swap. It could be something simple. I'd be glad to help where I can. Just send me a PM and we can get something set up.

[81SPIDERMATT]

fear not ... you are in the right spot for help.... the guys here are awesome ... loose the guys wanting to replace your engine first off ..without knowing more... it may need a rebuild ..it may not.... the fact they think replacement with different engine makes me believe that they are not the best ones for your car... although I am not one of the gurus on the site .. I will be watching this thread and throwing in moral support from afar .... what year is your car... where do YOU think the oil is coming from? ..general area??? what have you replaced thinking it would fix it.... but got to get it started first.... fuel... spark... air ... start slow .. knock things off one by one .... test ..confirm... move on... ask questions ... lots of questions ..... everyone here will help best they can .... no one wants you to just throw money at it and hope it works.... good luck.... and we all love pics.... Matt


start a thread with problems and questions in the proper locations within the site will help A LOT

[garion]

Try and avoid the engine swap! It sounds like it was running, but leaked oil.. So it could be something simple to get it running again, and then revisit the oil problem..

Start asking questions and detailing what exactly is happening.. We're friendly for the most part..And there's even a few of us in the Phoenix area who may be able to help..

[Jerstee]

Thank you all for the support, I have a 1975 124s. I have replaced all the sparks, wires, had a crack in the top of the motor welded closed, all gaskets and seals replaced on the motor, I changed the oil and got royal purple at the recommended numbers (which by the way is a special order) I've had the joints replaced, the bearings repacked, the brake system and lines redone, the smog pump pulled, the after market modified ac unit pulled, the tires custom ordered for the bier soon of magnesium rims it came with. It has never been in a crash and is completely rust free, got it a new performance carborator with filter, replaced the faded badges with original brass and enamel ones on front and back- and my interior (just to make it sexier) I am redoing myself in black leather and waterproof weave with fiat embroidery. My mechanic specializes in classic cars but has never seen a problem like this before. Once you go past a certain speed oil sprays which then gets caught in the fan and flings it back to the wiring which has resulted in a few mini fires at stop lights. Needless to say all that wiring was replaced too. Pressure tests passed, but since I allowed the bf to "test drive" it, it has not started since which makes me think the engine may have seized- yet it still has oil . He now has his own fiero and won't be touching my fiat- written in stone!! So at this point the mechanic wants to find a replacement and has not charged me anything for his work up to this point. Oh and he drilled a second hole on top of the engine and put a second vent in hopes to help with the oil issue just on the off chance it was having some back up pressure issues that were undetected by the tests- the vent is from a corvette.

[azruss]

First, does the motor turn over....like when you hit the key, the starter cranks the motor. If it does, then the motor is not seized. Does it get a spark. can tell this by turning the motor over, pull a spark plug wire and see if it will jump a spark to cam cover bolt. be sure and wear insulated gloves as you can get quite a shock. Check the dizzy cap, rotor, points, or mag pick up, whichever you have. check your belt timing. turn the crank to TDC and see if the holes on the cams line up with the pointer. this requires removing the belt cover. while that is apart, look at the condition of the cogs on the belt. pull the plugs and look at their condition. are they slate grey, black, oily, etc. Has anyone done a compression test.
Anytime you have a mechanic drilling holes, its time to move to a mechanic that knows and understands these motors.
I'm also quite concerned about the welding. what actually did they weld. the head, block, etc.
Give us as much detail as you can.

[Jerstee]

The valve cover was what was welded. There was a hair line crack the full length of the cover. The cylinder pressure test had 120-134lbs of pressure for the cylinder. A top down compression check revealed that The valves are fully closing. Oil is pooling at the top of the head to the point where it blows up the valve cover seals. The hole that was drilled was drilled in both valve covers and pressure relief corvette air filters were installed. The line that goes from the crank case to the valve covers was changed and valve replaced (PCV). Can't stop the oil from pooling in the valve covers. Mechanic thought the pressure from the cylinders maybe leaking past the valves or rings, thereby causing pressure buildup in the valve cover making the oil leak. All the tests say there is no leak in either. Boyfriend thinks oil passages maybe clogged thereby not allowing the oil to redrain into the oil pan fast enough. Neither one explains why the motor stopped turning when shut off. Now when the key is turned, it sounds as if the electric fuel pump is running, starter engages, but cannot move the fly wheel. Prior to this latest installment, all belts, sparks, wires, brakes, lines, fluids, rotor, distributor cap and points have been replaced. Several flushes were performed with marvel mystery oil.

[johndemar]

The cam covers (valve) can crack if they are torqued down too much. They're pretty easy to find and maybe better alternative than taking a chance on a piece that has been welded. Any chance the cover is warped and that is where the leak is coming from? Will the engine turn by using a wrench on the crank?
Maybe Sunnyside can recommend a garage closer to you.

[SunnySideUp]

Jerstee - I sent you a PM but haven't heard back from you. In the meantime...

Maybe Sunnyside can recommend a garage closer to you.

There's a couple of garages in Tucson that work on Italian cars:

• Tucson Foreign Car Specialists - 22nd & Kolb
• Gibbs Automotive Service - Speedway & Belvedere

I don't know of anyone specifically in Benson or Willcox. I'll have to check with one of our local group members to find out who they used in Sierra Vista - excellent results with some head work on an X-1/9!

If the valve covers were over-torqued I wonder what else was over-torqued. Hope the cam towers aren't warped or cracked, too. A good used set of valve covers is easy to source - try Lenny at Auto-Italia or the folks at Midwest Bayless.

I'm curious to know when the leak-down and pressure tests were conducted - before of after your boyfriend's test drive? Did the car return from your boyfriend's test drive under its own power or did you have to trailer it home?

[azruss]

If the timing belt slipped, the crank can get jammed against the cam lobe on the aux shaft. this can be determined by rotating the motor a few degrees in reverse with a wrench to see if it is free in that direction. If such an event happened while driving, the car would require a tow to get home.

[Jerstee]

The car was able to be driven all the way home and not towed. It was later on when it was attempted to be restarted it would not start and the other issues stated previous were starting to be noted. Just as a reminder- all belts were replaced along with all the other parts previously listed as well. Battery is new too and lights turn on with the key.

[Jerstee]

Oh- and the timing belt is free. But previous to this episode of the engine not starting, the oil pools were especially bad at 55mph or above if that helps.