Passing Emissions without the Emissions Control hardware

[Micah]

Hello all,

I have a pre-purchase question I’m hoping folks here can help me out with. I’m about to bite the bullet on a 1978 Fiat Spider but have run into a snag. All the emissions control hardware has been removed because the previous owner doesn’t live in an area where emissions testing is required.

Unfortunately for me, I will have to have the emissions tested before I am able to register the vehicle.

I searched the forums for information about passing emissions test but the pickings were pretty slim. Does anyone have any advice on how I can pass emissions without all the extra hardware? The seller did mention that I could screw in different jets and that with that, should get past emissions without too much hassle.

I’m totally new to cars in general and fiat spiders specifically so I’m not entirely sure what he means but I’m guessing the jets he’s speaking of are what feed gas into the carburetor. Does that seem right and if so, is that really all I would need? Can anyone point me towards where I could get replacement jets and what I should look for in order to lower emissions?

Thanks a ton guys. I can’t want to get my hands on one of these cars. They look like so much fun.

[mbouse]

not living in an emissions testing state myself... i can only guess what must be involve to undo what guys like me have done in removing and discarding all that equipment.

i'm betting that tests vary from state to state, and that meeting the minimum in some states will require different approaches to the problem you pose. it may be helpful to know where you live. just a thought.



oh, and welcome to the site.

[So Cal Mark]

it depends on what gasses are tested for and what type of test is done, an idle test or loaded mode. Changing jets will either richen or lean the fuel mixture, but doing that greatly affects other emissions. Too lean and HC and Nox increase, too rich and HC and CO increase while Nox decreases. the type of testing determines which way to go.

[Micah]

Left out the location, blast. This car would be registered in Utah.

One thing I did find out is that I can get a temporary 15-day permit 2 times. So I could have up to a month to get it up to where it could pass the test before I was in real trouble. Talking to the seller, I believe he has most if not all of the emissions control hardware so it's possible I could reinstall it all after I received the vehicle but if there's a simpler way, I'm all ears.

[So Cal Mark]

need alot more info about Utah's test, but unless the standards are very loose it would be tough to pass without any equipment. Do they have a visual/functional test or only a tailpipe test?

[Micah]

I'm pretty sure it's a tailpipe test here in Utah.

I ran across a post on another forum about a guy with a '68 mustang with the same problem. From what he was saying, it looks Utah does a High Speed and an Idle test where they measure the CO% of the HC (not sure what HC stands for). The CO% limit is 6% for both the idle and high speed to pass.

[stefhahn]

Hi Micah -

In my Spider I have a 2.0L, 34 ADF, 8.9:1 pistons, slightly sharper cams, 4-2-1 header, no catalyst, freeflow muffler setup. So no emission control hardware at all.


I justed checked my papers - we have to do an emissions test every other year that gets documented by a sealed piece of control machinery.

The control paper reads:
908 revs 0.11 vol% CO
2585 revs 0.28 vol% CO

I cannot believe the 6% you wrote - is that vol% as well? Or did you mean 0.06%? Let me know. If 6% every Fiat TC engine will be able to pass the test.

But this gets me to the idea to go for the 15 day thing and have a check at a proper garage.
Ít's always a good idea to have a hand picked mechanic... and to have a well warmed up engine and exhaust before starting the test.

ciao,
Stefan

[Micah]

Hey Stefan,

Thanks for the reply. I just talked to the Division of Environmental Health for the county I live in and it looks like the limits are 3% CO and 500ppm hydrocarbon (which is the HC from before). No mention of a volume measurement though. They also mentioned that I won't be required to reinstall any of the emissions control hardware so long as I pass the test.

It sounds like I should be able to beat the limit so long as the engine is running well. Does that sound about right?

[So Cal Mark]

yes, if the carb is working properly and is jetted properly and you have no misfiring issues you should pass

[Hvnfn]

Any chance the seller would agree to the terms of the car passing emissions before cash transfers hands? I mean, if it is that simple, the seller should be willing to help out, no?

[Micah]

The seller for the car I was originally looking at doesn't live in a place where emissions are tested for.

I ended up purchasing a silver 79 Spider 2000 a bit closer to home, but it's the same deal - the previous owner doesn't live in a place where emissions are tested. I might be able to finagle something but if I was the seller I doubt I'd agree to something like that. Passing emissions is beyond the scope of what they need and is really my problem, not theirs.

[pope]

Is that for all cars? Is there a year limit where if a car is old enough, it gets by? If not, that would limit a lot of classic cars from being bought into Utah. Maybe thats why Michigan has all the cool cars and snowy winters to clean the air.

[Micah]

I believe Utah has a rolling 40-year cutoff for emissions testing. What's a little odd is that out of the entire state, only 3 or 4 counties require emissions and the rest of the state is emissions free.

I'm thinking of taking the car to a shop ASAP to get it tested to see if it passes. Then again, it does have a moderate oil leak that needs to be taken care of so I might jump right in and pull the engine apart first thing. This will be the first time I've ever tackled something of this nature but what better way to become familiar, right?

I'll be picking the car up on Sunday and will post a thread with pictures then. Really looking forward to seeing this little guy in my garage.