Steering box and idler fluid levels

[rjkoop]

In the process of replacing all fluids on my '81. Just removed the steering box cover and the steering idler cover. Going to suck out old fluid and replace with recommended fluid. From what I've read I should...
- raise front end
- for the steering idler, fill with fluid, move the steering all the way left and right, fill again, repeat, replace cover and then top up from the fill screw - essentially should be full of fluid when done
- for the steering box repeat procedure but fluid should only be about an inch from the top of the box

Is this the correct procedure and levels?

Also for the other steering components/bushings can I lubricate them? If so what should I use for lubrication?

[TX82FIAT]

You are on the money with the steering box. however for the idler i would not fill it completely. there are two chambers and the oil needs to be able to move from one chanber to the next. In my opinion having taken one of these apart. if you fill it completley it will actually make the steering much more stiff than you want. maybe someone else can chime in on this. Previously filled the bottom section leaving about 1/2 inch put the cap on and a littl more fluid in the cap and then put the top piece back on. As far as lubricating the busings any all-purpose silicone lubricant designed for the busiongs should be fine.

On a side note, I replaced the OEM idle arm for the first time on one of my Spiders with a new ball bearing idle arm from autoricambi a few months back. Easy job and I don't think I'll ever have to worry about oil level in the Idler again given the small load put on the bearings with the new set up.

[rjkoop]

Thanks for the info. Is there a trick to getting the cover of the steering box to sit back down flush with the box itself? I spun the cover back on and it seemed to only spin so far. And I wasn't able to adjust the center screw very far thinking that might help. Or do I just have to pull it down by tightening the bolts? I found as I tightened the bolts more it was even more difficult to turn the center screw.

[rjkoop]

So I noticed (thank goodness!) that there was a steel brake line near the steering box that winds it's way from the bottom of the master cylinder or brake booster, by the steering box and then turns into the firewall area. This steel line was preventing the cover from going down flush with the box.

I'm still having trouble getting the box flush though (although it's lower now). The screw turns real easy (with a screwdriver) but then it starts to bind when I try to move it up (counter clockwise) to where it used to be so I can put on the lock nut. I just don't want to force things. I turn the screw fairly easy, it binds a bit and the loosens up a bit again until the next rotation. I kept the bolts on the box cover loose to ensure that the cover can move a bit to reduce the binding when I'm turning the screw. But it seems fairly tight.

It's a tough area to get a screwdriver into. Should I buy one of these to help with leverage?

http://www.gedoretools.co.uk/sockets-1- ... 65626.html

I guess I'm trying to understand what's going on underneath. Am I pulling up some steering components that requires more force or might be at a bit of a angle and therefore requires a bit of screwing force to adjust properly? Maybe because my wheels are in the air this might require more force and I should lower the car 1st? Or should that screw move easily all the way through the motion to where the box is flush and I can put on the lock nut?

[vandor]

I don't remember if there is a trick to install the top of the steering box, but you do know that there is an oil fill plug on top, so you can fill it without removing the cover?

[rjkoop]

I don't remember if there is a trick to install the top of the steering box, but you do know that there is an oil fill plug on top, so you can fill it without removing the cover?

Yep. Too late on that one. I wanted to clean the old gunk out. And the plug was too tight to get off anyways. Next time it will be easier...

I'm thinking that as I try to tighten the cover down (ie. by turning the screw to pull it down) the steel line is tight to the side of the cover and pushing it enough to cause it to be difficult to turn the screw. I'm going to ensure that the steel line is pushed away from the side of the cover while trying to turn the screw.

[RRoller123]

There is no trick to the top of the box, as I remember, it should go right on? But yes get that paste out of there or it will act as a grinding agent.

[rjkoop]

There is no trick to the top of the box, as I remember, it should go right on? But yes get that paste out of there or it will act as a grinding agent.

Thanks. I'll try again tonight.

[4uall]

Late to the party however, this might also help others


http://fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php ... oil#p65124

http://www.mirafiori.com/124susp/

[rjkoop]

Still can't get the friggin cover back on the steering box. I even bought a socket with a screwdriver bit but I was applying way too much force and I didn't want to break anything. Tonight I ensured that all surfaces were clean. There was a bit of crud on the center area (where the screw comes through) but not enough to hold the cover up.

I'll post a few pictures in case anyone notices something wrong.

(I put the bolt on just to ensure that the thread of the screw wasn't stripped at all - it wasn't)




I took a look at what might be involved in taking off the entire steering box but that looks like a real pain.

[81SPIDERMATT]

not knowing anything I have been following along ... interested to know why your problem exists .... brake line sure did not help I bet ...

again not knowing anything how that box works .. but it would appear that the cap has needle bearings that I assume ride that piece that the adjustment screw goes into ..... and by the orientation of the adjustment screw it is my guess that it moves or tightens "something" .... to my eyes it would appear that that tightening movement is up and down... same direction as your problem .... when you turn the screw does that make anything move that you can see .... can you turn the steering wheel and maybe something has shifted ... does the adjusting screw come all the way out .... hope it turns out to be something painfully simple .... Matt

[rjkoop]

not knowing anything I have been following along ... interested to know why your problem exists .... brake line sure did not help I bet ...

again not knowing anything how that box works .. but it would appear that the cap has needle bearings that I assume ride that piece that the adjustment screw goes into ..... and by the orientation of the adjustment screw it is my guess that it moves or tightens "something" .... to my eyes it would appear that that tightening movement is up and down... same direction as your problem .... when you turn the screw does that make anything move that you can see .... can you turn the steering wheel and maybe something has shifted ... does the adjusting screw come all the way out .... hope it turns out to be something painfully simple .... Matt

Matt,
Thanks for the analysis. I was trying to understand how this thing works as well. The screw spins freely. With the cap off you can turn the screw in either direction forever (ie. it didn't have a stop point) so it probably just sits in a sleeve and has stop points at top and bottom because I can't pull the screw out. If I pull the screw up and down it travels about 1/8" at most. So I think when the cap is on adjusting the screw moves one part of the worm gear up to loosen the steering a bit.

I have 3 theories but no idea if either is right.
1. there is a piece of metal stuck in the screw sleeve that's not allowing the screw to travel up as much as it should.
2. the angle of the screw changes as the cover is tighten down and causes it to bind.
3. the cover threads are stripped near the top

For #1 and #2 I'm hoping cleaning any crap in the center area where the screw comes might help. For #3 I'm going to try to thread a proper sized screw into the cover to ensure this isn't the case. Although I think the screw on the box is going enough through the cover that this isn't the case.

When I took the cover off the lock bolt was on with about 1/8" to 1/4" of the screw showing above the bolt. That's where I have to get this screw back to eventually. Right now I'm only seeing about 1/16" of the top of the screw showing probably because the covers not sitting flush with the box. I actually broke a screwdriver bit trying to turn the screw so obviously something isn't right. And I tried really tightening the bolts on the cover but a lot of force still didn't move the cover flush with the box.

I have the afternoon off today. I'm going to take another look. I may totally clean it out as best I can and try again. I REALLY don't want to have to take the box off. I know it's going to be a pain.

[81SPIDERMATT]

ok did not realize the cover hole was threaded .... one thing stands out to me when I read the link 4uall gave ...

" When the top cover gets near the steering box housing you may need to turn the adjustment shaft to get it down and seated that last little bit and have the 4 holes line up. Install the 4 hex head bolts, and make sure the top cover is on tight, turn the adjustment shaft back and forth slightly to make sure the top cover is not binding it. "

have you tried that ???? .... the adjusting screw to get the cover down where it needs to be .... are the wheels centered ??? and I think I would not worry about how far the screw sticks out just yet .... get the cover on and then test and adjust as needed .....

following along and hoping for the best ... hard to believe that no one else has had this problem ... maybe the wording of the thread title is not catching the right eyes ..... Matt

[rjkoop]

Yep. I was kind of surprised nobody else had this problem either. Lucky me!

Going to try again this afternoon. As the screw pulls up into the cover, the cover should move down snug without forcing the screw. Maybe 3rd time's a charm for this...

[rjkoop]

FInally! Got it! I think when I 1st put the cover on the brake line at the back angled the cover and maybe the screw got partially buggered up. Adjusting the screw, tightening the cover, adjusting the screw, etc... (with some force) eventually got it down. And the screw can now be adjusted easily and the steering feels great. Put the lock nut back on as well. Things look good and feel great.

Lesson learned... either never take that cover off or when putting the cover back on watch the brake lines at the back near the firewall.

Thanks for the help. Next job! Spring is coming...