starter crunching sound

[Chazwars]

So, the other day I had a mess of a time with electrical. I attempted to brown wire fix and to my dismay I may have blown my starter. Now, when I fire up the car (72) the starter is making an ungodly crunching sound. Would this be a sign of a bad starter or is it just receiving continuous power? I have replaced the ignition switch to an original from a later model so the wiring seems a little different.

[TX82FIAT]

? does it sound like an electrical or mechanical sound? Assuming the starter engages in the third position of the ignition switch and the car starts. The sound does go away after the car starts. It could be the starter, the gear or an electrical issue. Best effort to describe the sound?

[Chazwars]

It sounds like nails in a can or crumpling paper or tin foil, not clunking but crunching. Better maybe is the sound when you turn the key while the engine is running.

[azruss]

You may have your bendix drive locked up in your ring gear. If this is the case, you are doing damage to both fast. Try pulling the inspection plate on the bottom front of the tranny and see what the teeth on your ring gear look like.

[TX82FIAT]

Agreed, that is the mechnical sound I was afraid of and the reference to the sound made when your turn the ignition to an already started car has me thinking it is a gear/teeth issue. Odd that you would have a mechanical issue following the brown wire fix... but that is what it sound like.

[aj81spider]

How did you do the brown wire fix? (what did you wire to what?)

Is the starter on all the time, or only when the key is turned to "start?"

[Chazwars]

When I did the brown wire fix, I installed it on the post that had the black wire coming from where the solenoid and motor connect. I believe this caused power to move back and forth. When I rigged the wire to the ignition coil, the new brown wire melted and horrendeous sound came from the engine bay. I disconnected only to fine that my ignition switch locked up entirely. I got a new switch and when I installed it, I fired it up only this time did I hear this new crunching sound. It appeared to be coming from the starter. I was able to remove the starter (fairly fast) and checked the inside of the starter. No apparent major damage was noticed. So I guess I am back to checking the gear box to inspect the gear teeth. I am going pick up a new gear reduction starter since I've got the old one off and disassembled.

[Chazwars]

Here are a couple of shots after removing the inspection plate. It looks like there was some discoloration on about half the teeth. Some of them looked have the tips shaved down.

[azruss]

I had an MG where the bendix would lock up on the ring gear. when i took it apart there was about 4" of bad teeth that caused the problem. Look at all the teeth.

[Chazwars]

Yep, I cranked the engine and checked all the teeth visible from the inspection plate and noticed apprx. 10-15 teeth with some wear similar to those pictured.

[azruss]

That doesnt look like enough wear to cause the problem you are having. Next step is to pull the starter and look at the bendix drive, brushes and bearings.

[Chazwars]

I just opened up and inspected the starter. There were some filaments of what looked like a ring or metal inside the brushes and such. Otherwise, the bendix drive doesn't appear to be disrupted in any way.

[wizard124]

When I did the brown wire fix, I installed it on the post that had the black wire coming from where the solenoid and motor connect. I believe this caused power to move back and forth. When I rigged the wire to the ignition coil, the new brown wire melted and horrendeous sound came from the engine bay. I disconnected only to fine that my ignition switch locked up entirely. I got a new switch and when I installed it, I fired it up only this time did I hear this new crunching sound. It appeared to be coming from the starter. I was able to remove the starter (fairly fast) and checked the inside of the starter. No apparent major damage was noticed. So I guess I am back to checking the gear box to inspect the gear teeth. I am going pick up a new gear reduction starter since I've got the old one off and disassembled.

Do I have this right?

You add a brown wire fix which leads to starter/solenoid/ bendix drive issues, locks up your ignition switch (you replace it but the wiring is different), and the brown wire melts (either too much current or there is a short).

I suggest you remove that brown wire which seems to be causing all your problems. Trace out that new ignition switch and its wire leads to make sure they are wired correctly. Find a wire diagram on-line and make sure things are correct.

This starter thread may be helpful to you:
http://fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25986

[Chazwars]

Almost right. It actually all began when I reinstalled the lighting around the car. The car would not shut off after te key was pulled. I checked for shorts and didn't see anything but my wipers worked like they were possessed (triggering out of the blue) and headlights had no power leading to the adapters. So I thought I'd go ahead and do the brown wire fix to see about increasing voltage to the system.

So, then, the Brown fix caused the same brown wire to overheat and melt. This caused the ignition switch to lock up. Got a new original for later model (79+) and installed wires based on wiring diagrams for 72 and taking consideration of the change in plugs on the switch. Started up the car and the loud crunching noise began. Removed the starter and didnt to see any obvious damage. Checked the flywheel and a few teeth looked worn but nothing too out of line.

So, I've removed the old starter and in the process of reassembling the starter, I broke two of those springs that keep the brushings secure. No damage was apparent at the brushings. So now I will either try and rebuild the starter before buying a new starter. I don't want to blow up a new one if there is something crazy with my wiring.

Thanks for the link. That will be helpful for cleaning and reassembling. If I can just get these coils reset.

And thanks all of you for walking me through this troubleshoot!