Water temperature

[marco007]

Hello and... my compliments for this forum.
I am an happy owner of a fiat 124 spider CS1, 2000cc, made in 1978. I live in Italy but the car is from California (USA)... maybe it saw more places than me.
Coming to the problem (I saw it was treated many times but... maybe these don't fit with me)... I have a temperature problem because sometimes (in a random way) it raise till the red zone... sometime it is normal (at 190F)... usually, it is in the middle between 190 and the red zone. This seems not related with the outside temp. or with the running condition, but... it is really random. The other problem is... if I open the radiator tap when the indicator is in the red zone... the water... is hot but not... boiling... for what concern the secondary radiator (the plastic one that is in the engine space)... the water inside is... warm.
Note that I have a broken tap for what concern the hot air inside the car (it cannot be closed)... so an expert made a bypass mechanism (a new tap) in order to avoid that the hot water arrives to the small radiator.
I tried to change the radiator stopper with another that has a less excursion (By the way I think that this is the one needed)... the situation is worst for what concern the indicator but the water temp. seems the same...
Any suggestions?

Best regards.

[So Cal Mark]

if the bottom of the radiator is not hot, you're not getting circulation. Either the radiator is clogged or the thermostat is not opening

[Jazgeek]

my bet's on the thermostat

[ventura ace]

Has the thermostat been converted to inside the cylinder head (early spider design), or is it stock external design?

Alvon

[mbouse]

right. since it is a '78 and has a 2 litre engine.... you already have a mixture of components. hard telling without asking questions

a: which radiator do you have
b: which thermostat do you have

a couple of pictures would be nice as well.

although the others are off looking at the t-stat, i wanna make sure you understand proper filling of the coolant system to assure all of us that you have no air bubbles.

[marco007]

Uao... I am really impressed for your interest.... thank you.
So... I attach some images that I took today















I don't know if they are sufficient... by the way the problem persist and... it is becoming a form of nightmare... it is not possible to predict when it will happen... this evening, for example, the temperature remained in the middle between 190 and the red zone. This morning, instead, it was at the beginning of the red zone.

By the way... thank you again and... I wait for your suggestions.

[mbouse]

1. i see you are running a fuel injected engine which clearly is not stock for a 1978 vehicle.
2. does that red hose from the radiator filler neck run to the overflow bottle?
3. i cannot see the hose that should be connected to the bottom of the radiator. Is it connected properly to the thermostat, cuz i cannot see the bottom of the thermostat either.
4. you have a non standard valve in that heater core system, and it looks like it is shut off. could be a source of insufficient circulation which may be causing the over heating.

Personally, i would take the entire system back to stock. that suggestion starts right their at #4, removal of that shut off valve and returning those hoses to stock. however, that will require a good heater core and a good heater control valve.

what happens when you open this valve?

[So Cal Mark]

your water outlet is on upside down, so the bleed faces down. The bleed should face up, otherwise it's useless. The heater shutoff is okay, but the suggestion to bleed the cooling system is good. Erratic operation usually means air in the system

[mbouse]

mark, is that sensor a standard item on the F.I. engines? Not being familiar with the F.I. engines i did not notice that it was on the top of the T-fitting. it should be on the bottom, therefore the T-should be turned 180 degrees.

[marco007]

Yes, the car has a fuel injected engine... It is from California... it arrived in germany and... after... in Italy.
It has a fantastic engine but... I mean... I am not sure what kind of pieces it contains.
Coming to your questions:
2) the red hose from the radiator filler neck runs to the overflow bottle (passing below the air filter);
3) I will take a new picture, also because I don't remember to have the thermostat there
4) that valve is to shut off the circuit cause the main valve is... gripped. The interesting thing is that... If I open that valve the temperature... raises more than before... also if I turn on at maximum speed the fan of the inside eather system (obviously... I made that attempt with the opened car because... here is summer and the situation is not... so cold)

For what concern the suggestions of So Cal Mark... I don't have understood... what is upside down? This sound really interesting...

[pope]

What Mark is saying is that in picture 3 of yours, the t-fitting with the two hoses attached in upside down. You will have to take off the two hoses at that fitting,unbolt the fitting from the engine and turn it upside right and reinstall the bolts, gasket and sealer, then reconnect the two hoses. The wire with the sensor should be pointing down and a bronze bolt should be in the up position. When filling the system with antifreeze, loosen the bronze bolt to allow the air to escape from the system, as this is the highest point on the engine, and do this as the engine is running. Tighten the bronze bolt carefully as fluid is starting to come out of it. You will run the engine to get it hot and have the thermostat come on and circulate the fluid through the radiator.

[manoa matt]

I'll bet that if the water "T" connection is reversed then the electrical connector will be impacted by the cooling fan, probably why it is the way it is. From the pictures the heater cutoff (chrome plumbing valve) is the highest point in the system. The only thing I would do is to replace that valve or add in a Prestone flush "T" fitting at that point and bleed the system from there.

Re-orienting the water "T" outlet will require draining the system a little, removing the fan, removing the timing cover and most importantly disturbing the fragile water outlet bolts.

[marco007]

Ok, now I understand what is reversed. I have to check if there is enough space to put the things in their right place. Just a question... do I need to replace, also, all the guarnitions (if any) of the T connection?
And... just a curiosity... can someone of you send me an image of the correct T connection?
For the moment... thanks to all of you... I will keep you informed

[rlux4]

Here's a picture of the correct orientation:

(click to enlarge)

Ron

[So Cal Mark]

Once the tee is reversed, you still may find it difficult to remove the bleed screw. I like to use the throttle body hoses to finish topping off the system and forcing air out. Remove the hose from the water outlet to the throttle body and hold it up as high as it will go after filling the radiator. Then put the radiator cap back on, and finish filling the system through that small hose with a funnel. Once you get a solid stream of water coming out of the nipple, reconnect the hose. That definitely will have been the high point in the cooling system. Then run the car and see if the bottom of the radiator gets hot.