car died

[micbrody]

i went driving today. Suddenly after about 5-10 miles, car went dead. Tried to start, starter would go, I could hear fuel pump, but no ignition.
I looked under the hood. There is a thick green wire from starter that broke off of alternator. I reconnected, but still no start. the wire, I believe is a direct hot lead off of starter, so full battery amperage in it. I definitely noticed some arc if I accidently touched anything that was grounded.
Question: Could loose wire have shorted out something important, without blowing a fuse. The fuses look all normal. how would one proceed with diagnostics

[AriK]

An inline fuse outside the fusebox. This may help:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... =Fuse+link

[micbrody]

not sure worth mentioning: I am thinking about two sayings: "If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck......it's the duck." This would be my thinking that the loose hot wire shorted something out (fuse....still looking for it) or ECU or melted a wire.

The other saying goes "True ...True.... unrelated" : that the loose wire could have caused problems but was not the reason why car suddenly stopped. I mention this because the car has had starting issues. Lots of cranking. Usually a few seconds of crank. Does not start. But on subsequent attempt , the ignition starts.. though not smoothly...have to baby the start switch and fuel pedal. Once started, engine was great.When car was warm, it was easier to restart.

Another question: should i be hearing fuel pump in "run " position before cranking to start? Does this mean PO had bypassed a double relay or something?

[azruss]

the inline fuse is behind the instrument cluster and controls the dual relay. When the key is in the run position without the motor running, the fuel pump should not run. If you want to test, remove the air cleaner, turn the key to on and push the AFM door open and close. That should make the fuel pump run when the door opens. If this test works, then your fuse and dual relay are ok. Usually fuel pumps run or they don't, so your cold starting issues are more likely due to issues with the cold start injector, thermal switch, or wire to cold start injector. The injector can be removed from the car and put into a glass jar where you can see whether is sprays or not.

[micbrody]

I found inline fuse. It is fine. I just removed double relay; and tried bench testing. I believe I found the problem. When magnets separately energized, I do hear clicking. When testing the actuated switches, 88z to 88b do make a circuit (to fuel injects and some other ECU stuff. However, when 88y to 88c/88d do not complete circuit. This is part of circuit with auxilary air sensor and energizes fuel pump. I am guessing this was a bad connection and previous owner bypassed the fuel pump.
Can relay be disassembled and repaired?

[micbrody]

unfortunately, when I opened up relay, it looked pristine. After more careful look at schematic, I was only firing one relay. When I check both, everything worked on relay.

[So Cal Mark]

have you tested the battery voltage? Without the wire from the alternator you wouldn't be recharging the battery. It doesn't take much to make the fuel pump run but it may not have enough to start the car

[spider2081]

Also
I would pull the hose off the cold start valve and see if you have fuel flowing out of the hose when the car is cranking. Put a length of hose on the existing hose to catch fuel if it is flowing. When our FI cars sit for the winter any moisture in the fuel collects at the lowest point. The fuel pump is that point. I have taken a couple pumps apart and found them to have rust colored water in them. I don't know it it could clog the filter after the pump.

[micbrody]

I checked pink ignition wire to primary coil contact. 12 v, so that's good. I measured resistance of primary and secondary circuits on coil, and that checked out 1.3ohms and 10500ohms. I removed main connector from coil to distributor and held it a half of cm from ground. Cranked engine, but did not see any arc. When I touch contact the ground, there is a very tiny spark. Does this mean that the ICM is bad?

[micbrody]

is there a definitive way (bench test?) to see if ICM is good or bad? Based on my readings, if ICM is bad, then car will never start.

[micbrody]

I replaced ICM (cheap); and changed plugs.
I get spark on crank.
Still no start.

I disconnected one of the fuel injector electrical connection and put a 12 volt light between two leads. Cranked engine. No test light action.
So my ECU is not firing injectors.
Either bad ECU or wiring to ECU (relays, ground). Any suggestions before buying new ECU? Is there a ground for ECU that is bad? where? Can I disassemble ECU and see what's going on in there?

[micbrody]

I find it hard to believe that ECU shorted out. Isn't it electrically isolated by the double relays? I would think any short in engine compartment would not make it to ECU

[focodave]

Have you tried simply un-plugging and re-plugging-in the ECU several times (with the key in the "off" position, of course)?
Mine had a bad connection in that large connector at the back of the ECU that drove me crazy trying to find it.
I had the same symptoms -- good spark -- no fuel injector activity.

[micbrody]

I got it working. I drove about 10 minutes; it did stall once; but immediately easily restarted. Before reading previous post I had unplugged and replugged ECU; no luck; I them reversed the connectors on double relay. I probably plugged in reverse after inspecting relay. None of thatdirectly explains why car originally died and was unable to start. I did notice a much better spark to ground after I changed ICM. So probably it was the ICM. With that said, I am going to unplug both the relay and ICM . and apply some deoxy spray. I also have new spark plug wires coming. Resistance on the higher side. Thanks to everyone for the help. The good part of this exercise is I learned how ignition system works; including the physics of collapsing magnetic fields