Battery or Alternator?

[DieselSpider]

I just replaced the solenoid on my rebuilt starter a few months ago having similar symptoms only to have the new solenoid showing similar symptoms again. The connections are tight and were cleaned up pristinely when the solenoid was replaced too and the starter spun right up as it should when the solenoid was new. The diesels Hitachi reduction starter does draw more than for a gasoline engine so I am beginning to feel that under draw the long cable from the rear may be the culprit. When I replaced the solenoid I also cleaned up the battery clamps and squeezed in an 1,100 CCA battery so that is more than up to the task.

I am tempted to put in an old Ford Style external relay to power the starter and just have the solenoid on the starter only used to engage the drive gear.

[spider2081]

I installed a starter relay because my ignition switch "start" position was intermittent. I used a Bosch 40 amp relay. Terminal 30 connects to the battery terminal of the starter solenoid. Terminal 87 connects to the "engage or start" terminal of the solenoid. Terminal 85 connects to the "start" position of the ignition switch and terminal 86 connects to ground. New wires should be at least size # 12. The added relay bypasses the ignition switch and connects the cars battery directly to the starter solenoid when ignition switch is in the "start" position. Mounting the relay on the fender well under the hood near the starter makes for short wires and a pretty simple install. Relay has been working since 2003 and car has been driven close to 40,000 miles since with the original ignition switch in it. Car now has about 170,000 miles on it.
Starter solenoids draw a lot of current so any weak connection in the circuit becomes a big issue. Also it is a lot to expect an ignition switch to be able to last forever switching that high a current.

[70spider]

I installed a starter relay because my ignition switch "start" position was intermittent

Forgive my naivety, but does a starter relay protect the ignition switch?
I found this diagram
it seems simple enough, famous last words

[baltobernie]

What size should I get, 2 gauge?

2 gauge is good. I don't know if our vendors sell these assemblies, but if they don't, I'd advise against the DIY wire + battery terminal clamp. They seem to corrode very quickly. Here's one source for pre-made assemblies; I'm sure there are others ... maybe you even have one locally. Hot rod or marine supply places are a good bet.
http://www.pacergroup.net/Categories7.a ... ye_to_Post

[azruss]

I made my own "fat cable" many years ago. Don't remember the size of wire..maybe like 0. Definitely fatter than stock. You can buy solder style connectors for at least the starter end. I think the relay diagram is wrong. You don't need a relay between the battery and the starter. In fact, a relay in that circuit is going backward. The size of relay required for the power cable would have to be so massive, you would still be drawing plenty of amps through the ignition switch. You want the relay between the ignition switch (red; 50 terminal) and the spade connector on the solenoid. you can use a small relay like what the guys do with the headlights. run 12v from fused source to the switch side of the relay and on to the solenoid. run the ignition switch wire to the coil side of the relay and ground the other end. This way, when you hit the key, the amps through the ignition switch just needs to fire the relay coil. This takes the high amp load off the ignition switch contacts. My current switch is very iffy and i relayed the entire car 2 years ago. In the 2 years i've been driving the car, the switch is still iffy, but no worse than it was 2 years ago. I have a new switch in the toolbox and am waiting for this one to die before i replace it. I'm going to wait, just to see how much the relays help a dying switch.

[70spider]

Azruss,
I understand the theory and its potential benefits for the ignition switch but I'll be honest here, this relay talk is a bit "Greek" to me. I have read your instructions several times and still can't figure it out, damn dementia . When it comes to electrical wiring I can comprehend visual diagrams better than written instructions. Is this diagram a better representation of what your were trying to describe?

[azruss]

Here is what the set-up looks like. The wire from the big brown wire to the solenoid doesn't have to be any bigger than the red wire that comes from the 50 terminal on the back of the ignition switch. The relay to ground can also be that same size of wire. You can ground it any place convenient.

[70spider]

Azruss, thanks. I think with this and the new battery to starter cable I should be all set.

[70spider]

Update.
It occurred again (first time in 2 weeks) the car wouldn't start but this time it was odd. I had just got home from running errands and went inside for a minute, returned to the car and started it. It started but at the same time it turned over the cooling fan engaged causing the idle to drop and I didn't catch it in time and the car stalled. I went to restart it, click, then nothing. I tried doing the jump trick, no go, so I simply fiddle around the wires going to the ignition, by pushing them, remembering it could be a weak connection, I then tried to start the car and it started.
So I guess it is the brown wire connection to the ignition switch. I thought maybe I should do the "brown wire fix" or is installing a relay the better option? Any thoughts? I also thought about getting the IAP headlight relay kit, to further take stress of the ignition switch.

[azruss]

Unless you are planning on relaying everything in the car, the brown wire fix is still a good thing to do.

[70spider]

Azruss, your last comment intrigued me. What if I were to to do the "brown wire fix" clean up the old connections and then install a relay for both brown wires, would that be the best of both worlds or just redundancy?
Concerning the relays is the bosch/tyco 40amp the one of choice?
Also for some clarification, when I am looking at the wiring diagram the red wire goes to "50 post" on the starter and the brown wire goes to the "30 post" on the starter, and the battery cable goes to the "30 post", however when I replaced my starter with the gear reduction one from AR the only wire visible going to the 30 post looked like the battery cable. Is the brown wire joined with the battery cable within the harness somewhere? I know this sounds like a stupid question but the diagram shows three wires going to the starter and in reality I only connected two.

[DieselSpider]

I am planning on the old reliable Ford relay which is universally available and was used on just about everything from cars/trucks to tractors/heavy equipment or about 8,000 different automotive applications and countless numbers of tractors, gensets and various other pieces of equipment and available for only about $18 with a lifetime warranty:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0330

[spider2081]

I am planning on the old reliable Ford relay which is universally available and was used on just about everything from cars/trucks to tractors/heavy equipment or about 8,000 different automotive applications and countless numbers of tractors, gensets and various other pieces of equipment and available for only about $18 with a lifetime warranty:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0330

How are you planning to connect this relay??? What will it be switching??

[DieselSpider]

Power to the solenoid on the starter to engage the drive gear and also to the starter motor since the contacts on the built in solenoid don't allways seem to be engaging 100% all the time. Could be that the drive gear has a bur that is preventing it from throwing far enough at times to allow the plunger to close the contacts.

[azruss]

the top lug on the starter solenoid has 3 wires. the big one from the battery, one that goes to the alternator and the brown wire that goes directly to the ignition switch. Because the 70 had an external regulator, the wire to the alternator may come in differently. you will have to consult a 70 schematic to see what happens with the 3rd wire. As I recall my 70 had 3 wires to the solenoid, so maybe someone did some creative wiring on your car.
I see no reason for a relay in the brown wire circuit as there is no switch in the circuit. the brown wire fix will leave this circuit in its best possible condition. The reason for pulling a small brown wire off this circuit is to feed the new relay with power with the fewest connections and the least alteration of the original wiring.
the 40a relay available from any auto parts store will do the job nicely.
I relayed my entire car and designed the relay box so it could be removed from the harness as no wires within the harness was altered. This would take the car back to stock. Whatever you do, document what you did thoroughly so it can be passed on to the next owner of your car. We all see the challenge other members face with creative wiring from POs. Limit your Carma liability.