Battery charge indicator - belt slip?

[phaetn]

Just had some work done on the car which involved the mechanic taking off the belt for the alternator and water pump. There was a ticking sound after I had all the seals replaced and we've ruled out the auxiliary shaft lobe as the noise goes away when the belt is taken off. The aux shaft pulley is lined up correctly (1 o'clock, lined up with tensioner spring bolt); crank is at TDC, cam pullets 11 and 1 o'clock.

The belt seems seems tight, but my battery warning indicator light came on at idle. It has done that once or twice before, but really only if the revs dropped below 500rpm indicated for one reason or another (e.g. rich mix on a hot day, lights and fan on). I gave it throttle so RPM climbed up over 1200 and the light stayed on. It has never done that before. Them I had to go out and leave the car alone.

Came back after two hours -- started car, no light as it idles. Another try a little later and it came on dimly for a bit, but then pretty much was off.

The battery is new from earlier this year. I just put on a new alternator belt three days ago. When the light did come on today there was no sound of a screeching belt or any smell of a burning belt. Could it still have been slipping and this accounts for the light? I'm about to go down to FFO in a few days and want to make sure it's all set...

Thanks and cheers,
phaetn

[AriK]

Water pump is new. The only component left in the equation when you remove the belt is the alternator. Ticking noise must be coming from there. The belt is more likely to slip at high rpm than low. Try to spin the alt pulley against the belt with your fingers. Take a voltage test across the battery terminals with engine running. If you dont have over 14 vollts, take the alternator to a rebuilder monday morning and tell him you're not leaving till he's done.

[4uall]

April says to just put some electrical tape over the light, works every time

[azruss]

belt slip is where i would look. the ticking sound may be the belt moving enough to hit something like the cam belt cover. It is possible to have the belt slip without squealing. Look at your alt pulley to see if the belt track is all smooth and polished. May need to rough it up with some sandpaper.

[phaetn]

Thanks for all the replies, gents.

Mech said he tried turning the water pump and alternator by hand and couldn't get any ticking. With alternator belt off, ticking goes away, which seems to suggest it's not the crank, aux shaft, or valves. It seems to be only when the tension of the belt is on.

Before it was almost a rattle. Took it back twice to mech. He ended up taking off the crank pulley again and loctiting it in place in case it had backed off, which he said it may have. There's still a bit of a noise, but much less than before. I also wonder if originally the aux shaft had been in a slightly different position and not at spec. Could it have been one tooth different?

Thanks for the tips re the alternator. I might try the sandpaper trick in the morning.

Cheers,
phaetn

[AriK]

Also look for a hairline crack on any of the pulleys.

[DieselSpider]

Is it possible that with the tight new seals the idle rpm simply needs to be readjusted to compensate for that until they wear in?

[phaetn]

Seems okay. I tightened the belt and am getting 14v at battery.

Unfortunately ticking not gone even when I pulled the belt again. Worrisome. Oh well!

Thanks!

Cheers,
phaetn
Edit/Update
I got rid of the ticking by taking off the timing belt cover. Not sure it it was the cover, or a bolt that was holding it on, but noise is gone.

[phaetn]

Update:
Car was fine with no charging issues driven over 1300 miles to FFO and back, plus jaunts when back home. Once on the drive down the battery charging indicator light very briefly appeared, but then not again for the duration.

Yesterday it lit up again, mainly when under 1000rpm; it would go away over that.

I slightly tightened the alternator belt just now and now the light is pretty much always on, but it pulses, it's not steady. I had checked the voltage before turning the car on and it was 12.4v, which seems low (I was expecting about 12.7). I turned on the car and let it idle and the voltage is consistently between 14.3 and 14.5, which seems good, but the charging light is flickering on.

When I turn on the headlights I can hear the alternator be under load more, and then the charging light goes OFF and stays off. Checking the battery, it now reads between 14.5 and 14.7 or so with lights on.

The battery is brand new as of this year. I did kill in about a month ago (well I didn't cause it) when the mechanic who had replaced all the seals and timing belt had inadvertently disconnected three leads from the alternator and I drove for about a day like that. Turns signals getting slow was a clue that the battery was dieing but before I figured it out it wouldn't start after I had turned it off one time.

Canadadan fixed me right up and we put on a new belt at the time.

What gives? Is it my alternator or my battery?

Putting it on a tender now...

Thanks and cheers,
phaetn

[AriK]

Try this simple procedure to test your alternator.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-ind ... ostic-test

[phaetn]

Thanks for the link, Ari. I don't have a roof -- where do I find the dome light?

I think the alternator may be generally okay, but it pulses. How does the rectifier work on cars like this? Or is that built into a modern alternator (which it has).

After only about 15 mins on the tender it turned off automatically and the battery read a solid 12.7v. The battery charging light still came on intermittently after starting.

I went out for a drive and the light went away most of the time. It would occasionally appear at idle, sometimes yes, sometimes no. If I turned on the lights it immediately went out. Is this because the alternator is now under a bigger load and is working harder and so providing more voltage?

Definitely my headlights flicker a bit when idling, but they always have done. With lights on and when the fan comes on RPM probably drops by about 200, but it's always done this.

I think I'll just live with it for now. It starts, runs everything fine (remember those hours with headlights on, blower on full, wipers madly clearing water (except for 4uall!).

Maybe it's a fix it down the road thing...

Thanks and cheers,
phaetn

[spider2081]

Curious as to what alternator you have on the car. Is it the original type? Does it have an internal or external regulator. It is not too uncommon for an alternator warning light to be lit at idle, especially when a car idles below 1000 RPM. However when the RPM is increased to 1200 as you state the light should be out. Also if the lite is lit adding load like turning on the headlights should not put the light out. To me your symptoms sound more like a voltage regulator related issue than the alternator itself.

To isolate the source of the noise have you tried using a long screwdriver as a stethoscope? Put the point of the screwdriver on possible noise source and press your ear to the handle. Be careful of moving parts.

[phaetn]

Thanks for the reply.

I wonder if it's just starting to go bad. It's an aftermarket one put on by the previous owner. It definitely charges the battery, but there is a distinct pulsing that is worse than it used to be. I wonder if I have the belt on too tight and that's starting to put pressure on a bearing or something. Headlights definitely pulse more than they used to, even when at higher rpms -- it used to happen just at low idle, but now I noticed it even on the dash lights last night. Not all the time, just some of the time.

The battery charging light ALWAYS goes out as soon as I put on the lights. I'm starting to drive more without lights on (I used to have them on on every drive during the day) and maybe that's why I notice the light more -- maybe it always would have happened.

I can even hear the fuel pump whine change with the pulsing of the alternator, but it never seems to fuel starve.

I'll keep my eye on it and if it really starts to be problematic I'll switch it out.

Cheers,
phaetn

[azruss]

I'm wondering if you have a weak cell in your battery. It seems like the regulator is toggling back and forth between a high charge (large volt differential) and normal charge (normal volt differential). you might try switching out the battery for a test.

[spider2081]

Slightly off your topic but if you drive with headlights on most of the time. Have you installed the headlight relay circuit??? If not I would do that. The contact plate in the steering column hi/lo beam switch overheat and become intermittent in time.