Slow turn signals

[aevansgatech]

I just performed the brown wire fix and it seems like the headlights are shining brighter now. The remaining issue I have with the lights is that the turn signals are really slow. Like once per second

Any suggestions? They work properly, so the connections are right, they are just slow.

[seabeelt]

Clean the connections and grounds

[bradartigue]

Are you using a stock flasher unit? Some heavy duty units click very slowly...some electronic ones do this as well.

[Nanonevol]

Is famed "brown wire fix" a redundant wire from the ignition (where there is an unused spade connector) to the starter? I must be missing something because I don't see much point in that and don't see how it could make lights brighter.

[aevansgatech]

Yeah the brown wire fix is simply a second connection from the ignition switch to the + Starter terminal. Not sure if it did anything, but it shouldn't hurt either.

As far as the flasher unit, I believe it's a stock unit, just relocated from the side to the front fender area. I'll try cleaning the connections and grounds

[bradartigue]

Is famed "brown wire fix" a redundant wire from the ignition (where there is an unused spade connector) to the starter? I must be missing something because I don't see much point in that and don't see how it could make lights brighter.

This fix gets a lot more credit than it should. The fault lies in the ignition switch and the lack of a relay between the switch and starter. Over time the original line gets old and resistance builds, so a second line provides a new source for power. Most folks who replace just the original line get the same result. All that said if you do the fix you may get brighter lights, but only because you've added a better pathway for power. This reduces the load because you are reducing resistance, and everything benefits.

A slow flasher is one is either designed for heavy loads (like the addition of trailer lights) or one not getting enough power to quickly heat up the element inside of it. This can be caused by a bad ground (likely) or corroded positive leads (less likely) or just a worn out flasher(also likely).

[Nanonevol]

But the starter motor juice itself doesn't have to flow through the ignition switch, just the power to the solenoid, right? What's the difference between a solenoid and a relay anyway?

[76was124]

But the starter motor juice itself doesn't have to flow through the ignition switch, just the power to the solenoid, right? What's the difference between a solenoid and a relay anyway?

For the purposes of our discussion, functionally, not much.

It is more about how they are constructed and purpose of use. Picture a solenoid as a very heavy duty coil that mechanically moves a conductor bar across two points you want to connect electrically. A relay also has a coil (solenoid) that causes a mechanical movement to make contacts connect. ( functionally same purpose)

However, relays tend to have multiple contacts, normally open and or,normally closed with or without shared commons with contact ratings well below 30 to 40 amp. A solenoid on a starter is usually a single contact being made integral to the starter usually capable of carirying 150 amps or more across the connection.

[DieselSpider]

But the starter motor juice itself doesn't have to flow through the ignition switch, just the power to the solenoid, right? What's the difference between a solenoid and a relay anyway?

For the purposes of our discussion, functionally, not much.

It is more about how they are constructed and purpose of use. Picture a solenoid as a very heavy duty coil that mechanically moves a conductor bar across two points you want to connect electrically. A relay also has a coil (solenoid) that causes a mechanical movement to make contacts connect. ( functionally same purpose)

However, relays tend to have multiple contacts, normally open and or,normally closed with or without shared commons with contact ratings well below 30 to 40 amp. A solenoid on a starter is usually a single contact being made integral to the starter usually capable of carrying 150 amps or more across the connection.

However the solenoid on the starter also has the additional function of engaging the starter drive gear with the flywheel. A relay may only need a few milliamps of current to trip it while a solenoid may require 20 or 30 amps to do the work its intended to which in this case is of engaging the starter drive gear with the flywheel and then switching on the starter motor once the drive gear is fully extended. The Fiat starter is between 1 to 1.3 kilowatts however I am not sure of the draw of the solenoid. The 2 kilowatt starter in the diesel has a solenoid that requires a 30 amp circuit to engage the starter gear and make contact to turn on the starter motor.

Putting in a relay that draws a few milliamps to engage the starter solenoid has the potential to reduce the starting load on the ignition switch by 15 or more amps.

[azruss]

The starter gets is power directly from the battery. It does have to do through the solenoid for its only on/off contact. There is a plate internal in the solenoid that connects to 2 lugs on the outside of the solenoid. If you want to check the viability of this contact, it can be jumpered on the outside. This is a tricky matter as you will have to use something like a jumper cable and if you arc directly to one of the lugs, you will burn a nice hole in the thread. you need to connect 2 separate lines to each lug and then connect the 2 wires together. I highly discourage you from using this technique. If the starter motor is spinning fine, then no need with the above. As others have stated, the solenoid not only needs to ignite the field windings in the starter but also have enough power to connect the contact plate and the bendix drive. There is also mechanical movement in the solenoid that can wear and create a high drag path that is difficult to overcome with 12V.
I know this has nothing to do with the turn signals and just brought this up as the conversation has turned to starters and a need to relay the solenoid.

[bradartigue]

But the starter motor juice itself doesn't have to flow through the ignition switch, just the power to the solenoid, right? What's the difference between a solenoid and a relay anyway?

In the case of the Spider, the solenoid is big. Too big for a mile of wire running through a relatively weak ignition switch. So yes we're really just talking about a relay controlling another relay as a way to reduce the load on the ig switch.

[aevansgatech]

So I'm having a strange symptom with the brown wire fix..

I have a 10gauge wire running from the #30 empty ignition switch terminal to the starter stud not labeled +B. That's where my factory brown wire connects.

The issue is my dash battery and oil lights come on and stay on even with no key in the ignition. Seems to me like the ignition switch is always hot and shouldn't be. Did I do something wrong here?

I have it disconnected for now

[daved]

Back to the turn signals. Have a very similar problem with my 1969 Fiat. Have tried replacing the flasher, cleaned or replaced all the turn signal bulbs and cleaned a lot of connections. even tried running a ground wire from the rear light assemblies to the battery. Nothing has made any improvement.

[AriK]

Somehow you have created a hot connection with pink wire #15.

[spider2081]

Hooking the extra brown wire up works only for the original Fiat ignition switches. The after market switches ( I think they are Lada) have a double spade terminal that is switched to 12 volt battery power when the key is switched "off" for key removal. In my opinion the are not a worthy replacement for the original switch. The original switch circuit was fed with 2 #10 wires a black wire from the alternator and a brown wire from the starter solenoid battery terminal. The brown wire gets switched to the red wire that engages the starter solenoid in the "start" position of the ignition switch. That is 1 set of contacts inside the ignition switch assembly. The brown wire also feeds another set of contacts in side the switch assemble that switches voltage in the "start and run" position of the switch to the headlight on /off switch. This is an entirely separate set of contacts. It allows the headlights to be turned off with the ignition switch. The black wire feeds a 3rd set of contacts in the switch that switches voltage to the Fuse panel in "start and run" positions of the ignition switch. This set of contacts feeds everything else that is powered on/off through the ignition switch. The original ignition switch has 3 independent set of switches inside it. The after market switches I have taken apart do not. So one set of contacts drives everything that is powered through the ignition switch in the "run" position. Also there was only one feed terminal so the brown and black feed wires end up on same terminal.

Not everyone will agree with me but I believe a repaired original switch is better than these new aftermarket switches.