Slow turn signals

[bradartigue]

So I'm having a strange symptom with the brown wire fix..

I have a 10gauge wire running from the #30 empty ignition switch terminal to the starter stud not labeled +B. That's where my factory brown wire connects.

The issue is my dash battery and oil lights come on and stay on even with no key in the ignition. Seems to me like the ignition switch is always hot and shouldn't be. Did I do something wrong here?

I have it disconnected for now

The #30 connection on the back of the switch is bridged - it's obvious as the bridge is exposed partially. Can you take a picture of your switch back? This seems odd, unless you accidentally connected it to another terminal.

[spider2081]

I think he has an after market switch. The bridged contacts in the few I have tested are switched to power when the switch is rotated to a position you can remove the key.

[aevansgatech]

I'll take a picture of the switch. It could very well be aftermarket and I haven't identified it yet.

In any case, the car runs fine without it so I may just take the wire out of there (it's disconnected on both ends now)

[aevansgatech]

This is the back of my ignition switch. I used the other #30 terminal. Looks stock to me..

Front of the switch says "Sipea?" made in Italy

[spider2081]

That looks like an original switch to me also. If I remember correctly the two # 30 terminals are connected together inside the switch and the two "int" terminals are connected together inside the switch. The brown wire on terminal 30 should have battery voltage on it and is connected to the starter solenoid on the same post as the battery cable. The brown wire gets switched to the red wire in the start position of the ignition switch. The brown wire is switched to the blue/black wire on the "int" terminal in the "start and run" positions of the switch. Neither the red wire terminal # 50 or the "int" terminal should have voltage on them with the key in the off position.
Just curious do the wire colors match at the nylon connectors behind the ignition switch, meaning does the red wire on the switch mate to the red wire on the cars side of the connector??

[bradartigue]

I can tell you by looking at that switch the problem isn't the brown wire. It may be the switch, but it isn't the wire. When these things are worn out they are nasty looking, a burn mark in the solder, the wire is corroded... move along. Test power at the switch and then move on to other things!

[aevansgatech]

The switch as shown in the picture has no issues. Brown wire connection and everything is good.

The only problem was when I hooked up a second wire from the empty terminal (30 in the pic) to the starter solenoid. The ignition did not like that one bit.

I've left it as shown in the picture for now, because there isn't an issue

[silvadw]

The switch as shown in the picture has no issues. Brown wire connection and everything is good.

The only problem was when I hooked up a second wire from the empty terminal (30 in the pic) to the starter solenoid. The ignition did not like that one bit.

I've left it as shown in the picture for now, because there isn't an issue

Hi,
Check the internal of the switch. When i soldered my extra wire, the heat in the tab melted some of the plastic and caused an issue. easily solved by reheating the tab and aligning properly. the switch should be easy to disassemble with the removal of the cir-clip.

[Nanonevol]

Lots of good information in this thread for me. I'm about to attempt some wiring improvements. I picked up one of these continuous duty solenoids:

as recommended by Mark I believe. Sure looks substantial. The idea is to use it for all the power coming off the ignition rather than putting in separate relays for wipers, low beams, high beams, etc. etc. It would go right off the ignition, before the fuse box or wherever else. Has anyone else done this with success that would like to report? I'd also like to relay the starter, separately of course, on the basis of Diesel's earlier post. What kind of relay would I use for this? Would it need to be a heavy duty type?

[spider2081]

Not sure how that relay gets connected to by-pass the ignition switch connections in the "start and run" position of the original ignition switch.
The original switch has two voltage sources. a black wire from the alternator output post that connects to terminal 30/1 of the ignition switch. In the "start and run" position of the switch, this voltage is switched to terminal 15/54 which connects to fuse A and the ignition coil and depending on year of car a couple additional circuits. There is also a brown wire that originates at the battery terminal of the starter solenoid that supplies voltage to terminal 30 of the ignition switch. This wire is switched to terminal 50 of the switch in the "start" position to engage the starter solenoid. In the "start and run" position of the ignition switch this wire is connected to terminal "int" on the ignition switch. The "int" terminal is connected to the headlight switch,the radio, and depending on year of car additional circuits.

I think Fiat designed the ignition switch to have these separate switch contacts so not all of the car could loose power from a single problem. If you jump all the circuits together to go through a single relay, you loose everything if the relay fails or the circuit powering the relay fails.

The separate relay circuits have the advantage of not only redundancy but also the relay is only being used when that circuit is required. Example headlight lo beam. The relay is only used when the lo beams are being used. Starter solenoid activate relay again only used in the "start position of the ignition switch. If one of the separate relays fails only the device it controls is lost.

Just something to think about

[DieselSpider]

Those barrel relays generally are good for about 1 to 2 kilowatts and for less than $15 are quite a bargain. I went with only one of those which is used for the Diesel Glow Plugs.

I am trying the $4 to $6 Optronics 40 Amp relays from Advance Auto Parts for everything else. I have begun with the Starter Solenoid on one and the Fuel Lift Pump and Fuel Solenoid on the other.



The starter solenoid surprised me since it took a 30 Amp fuse to hold it for the few seconds you key the starter on so that circuit was putting quite a jolt through the ignition switch when it was carrying the full load of engaging the solenoid on the starter. The fuel cutoff solenoid valve was also a surprise as it was drawing enough to overheat the barrel connector that it was spliced into using the original distributor/ignition wiring.

I probably reduced the current flowing through the ignition switch by at least 10 amps with that one. Car starts much more solidly and I am certain that starter solenoids along with the starter itself are now going to last much longer now.

I also did the Brown Wire Fix so that along with the relays should leave me with a more solid 12.5 volts getting to the lighting system promoting longer bulb life.

Next step is a nice box with room for expansion to house the relays under the hood afterwards adding relays for the exterior lighting circuits to further reduce the load on the ignition switch.

Turn signals are working however the indicators in the dash are not. The dash wiring was all messed up by one of the previous owners with the green wire on the turn signal socket actually cut loose from where it originally went however the emergency flasher and wipers do work. The high beam indicator lights when you turn on the low beams with no backlights for the gauges working aside from the temp and fuel gauge and there is no running light position on the headlamp switch however some of the dash lights come on when you switch on the high beams. Heater fan only operates on low and the wire for the high speed side of the switch in the center console isn't visible when removing the switch.

Plenty of electrical work to do on the Diesel Spider.

[Nanonevol]

I think Fiat designed the ignition switch to have these separate switch contacts so not all of the car could loose power from a single problem. If you jump all the circuits together to go through a single relay, you loose everything if the relay fails or the circuit powering the relay fails.

The separate relay circuits have the advantage of not only redundancy but also the relay is only being used when that circuit is required. Example headlight lo beam. The relay is only used when the lo beams are being used. Starter solenoid activate relay again only used in the "start position of the ignition switch. If one of the separate relays fails only the device it controls is lost.

Just something to think about

Thanks, well this is why I'm posting to see how to do it. Of course the starter needs to be separate but I don't see the problem with putting everything that's powered in "start and run" on the solenoid and giving it power straight from the starter post. True, if this one solenoid fails nothings going to work but I think it's more likely the ignition switch as it is would fail. Waiting for more feedback.

[DieselSpider]

I think Fiat designed the ignition switch to have these separate switch contacts so not all of the car could loose power from a single problem. If you jump all the circuits together to go through a single relay, you loose everything if the relay fails or the circuit powering the relay fails.

The separate relay circuits have the advantage of not only redundancy but also the relay is only being used when that circuit is required. Example headlight lo beam. The relay is only used when the lo beams are being used. Starter solenoid activate relay again only used in the "start position of the ignition switch. If one of the separate relays fails only the device it controls is lost.

Just something to think about

Thanks, well this is why I'm posting to see how to do it. Of course the starter needs to be separate but I don't see the problem with putting everything that's powered in "start and run" on the solenoid and giving it power straight from the starter post. True, if this one solenoid fails nothings going to work but I think it's more likely the ignition switch as it is would fail. Waiting for more feedback.

To me that would be trading a costly failure of the ignition switch that could take some time to get a replacement for the failure of a relay that could be sourced at most any handy parts store in a few minutes for less than $20. You may need two for handling the multiple positions of the ignition switch and then I would still consider a few individual relays to further reduce the loads on the fuse box for lighting and the other heavier loads that are easiest to switch over.

[spider2081]

Installing the separate Bosch style relays in the Starter, windshield wiper, headlight and radiator coolant fan circuits not only bypasses the ignition switch if installed properly they also bypass the control column wiper and headlight switches as well as the coolant fan switch located in the lower area of the radiator. If ones intent is to remove high current from expensive switches separate relays not only provides more protection it also provides a more direct path for the alternators output to reach the device.

The brown wire fix does not add another contact inside the ignition switch. Connecting a new wire between the starter solenoid's battery terminal directly to the ignition bypasses other connectors the original brown wire passes through. Depending on the year of the car, the brown wire from the starter connects to either a 3 pin plug or a single bullet connector located behind the alternator on the drivers side fender well. It could also pass through a 4 pin connector located close to the hood release under the dash and a 6 pin connector behind the ignition switch. Any or all of those connection can cause a symptom similar to a faulty ignition switch. There are many posts here about fixing these connections and or replacing defective coolant fan switches, wiper switches and headliight switches.

[Nanonevol]

Right, point taken. My massive continuous duty solenoid will take load off the ignition if I wire it as planned but would do nothing to protect switches down the line from there. It's only an idea I read about here that "Mark" was/is doing and it seemed to make sense.
Wiring diagram for my "77 shows brown wire direct from starter to ignition.