Can a Spider hold its liquor?

[msrmd]

Almost all the gas being sold around here now has at least 10% alcohol added.(some government incentive)
I understand that this does not pose a problems for modern engines, but that it might be a problem for older engines.
What about the 124 spider and its different engines and methods of aspiration?
If so, is there any additive that would help or counteract any harmful effect from the ethanol?

[manoa matt]

An internet search will reveal the cons involved with ethanol gas, but from what I've read the most major problems are that the alcohol can soften rubber hoses like the fuel lines. The alcohol will also breakup and partially disolve varnish and gunk that has built up over the years, this gunk can get lodged in the jets of the carb or FI and cause rough running. The alcohol will also absorb water, so if you live in a wet climate (rain forest) you may be burning a little bit of water in the engine.

I've been running the 10% ethanol gas for about 2 years now with no problems in my carbed 78, and its a daily driver. Of course when I got the car I cleaned and rebuilt the carb, replaced all rubber gas hoses, and drained and flushed the tank prior to putting it on the road.

If you live in an area where all the gas stations use the alcohol gas, and you want gas without alcohol in it you should try a boat dock, it may be $1 more per gallon. They call it "classic gas".

[racydave]

The boiling point is lower, which can cause it to boil in the carb and lines causing hard start problems. It does not seem to bother mine...

[msrmd]

Thanks Matt. Lots of lakes and marine gas around here. I'll start using that. Fortunately with the Spider's good gas mileage and my low mileage pleasure driving habits, an extra dollar a gallon is cheap insurance.

[msrmd]

Dave: your post came in while I was replying to Matt. I have noticed starting problems when I have not driven the 71 for more than a few days. It does eventually start, but it takes a few tries. If I am not disciplined enough to keep from pumping the accelerator, I flood it in the process. My original 73 had a manual choke and a throttle. The replacement weber has the automatic choke. I had always assumed that hte automatic choke was getting stuck. I would depress the accelerator pedal fully for a bit , let up, and try again. Eventually I can start it, but I often trickle charge the battery, assuming that I may have drained it in the process. Maybe it was the gas all along.

[pope]

Liquor? I've never even kissed her!

Does the pump have to says that it has ethanol for it to be in there? Or is it standard operating procedure.

[racydave]

It could be a choke adjustment problem. If you take off the ari breather and look at the choke, it should shut almost all the way, and be able to open slightly. Experiment with it!

[manoa matt]

With my 78 carb (32Adfa) with auttomatic choke and mechanical fuel pump my starting procedure is to pump the pedal twice then turn the key without touching the pedal. Like a Snapper mower it starts the first time everytime.

[msrmd]

Pope: It says so on the pump
Dave: I will try looking at the choke first thing in the morning.
Matt: I have what I think is a 32/36 and have replaced my dead mechanical fuel pump with an electric one that comes on as soon as I turn the ignition to the ACC position. I will try the two pump procedure in the morning.

Thanks everyone...I'll get back to you

[manoa matt]

Some one correct me if i'm wrong, but Carb and FI cars have somewhat different starting procedures.

For carb cars you NEED to pump the pedal twice, regardless of whether your car has a mechanical or electrical fuel pump. It lets two squirts of gas into the intake manifold, this primes the car for starting. I think some people with electric fuel pumps on carb cars let the pump prime for two seconds before starting. All that will do is fill the float bowl untill the float rises and the needle valve cuts off. Either way there should still be enough gas in the float bowl to start the car from the last time you shut it off, unless you have a vapor lock problem or the car sits for a while and the gas evaporates. You still need to pump the pedal two times to prime the intake manifold.

For FI cars: (sorry I don't have a FI Fiat, so i'm guessing) When you turn the key to the on position the FI electric pump should come on for 2 seconds, prime the system, then shut off. This presurizes the system so that when the key is turned to start the car, the FI system is under pressure and the injectors will squirt gas. Ther should be no need to pump the pedal twice with a FI car prior to starting.

[rlux4]

Exactly true Matt. Even if an FI car is pumped, it wouldn't do anything. But then, old habits are hard to break.
Ron

[Danno]

My family has put millions of ethanol powered miles on anything from 1960s grain trucks to cars from the early eighties to new econocars, pickuptrucks and scooters, lawnmowers, antique tractors and the like. NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ETHANOL.

[msrmd]

OK... Results:
1) the choke (butterfly) is in correct position prior to starting, and remains there until engine warms up, or I significantly depress the gas pedal.
2) two pumps on the gas pedal before key turned did not work.
3) turned key to acc (activating fuel pump), turned key off, pumped twice, then turned key to start...voila we have ignition.

I am guessing that the bowl must empty or evaporate after sitting for a few days. Whether the lower boiling point for the ethanol has anything to do with this I can only guess. But I now have a procedure that works. I presume that I am filling the bowl with the fuel pump making gas available for the pump procedure. Make sense? Actually, since it works, and you guys don't think the 10% ethanol isn't a big problem, I'm good to go.

Thanks for all the advice

[racydave]

coolbeans!