Electric Fiat 124

[zachmac]

We still have more than enough power to substantially damage drivetrains! Point in case with this car. We had to have a little fun and test the limits Toasted the spider gear and snapped an axle clean! Nothing a little work doesn't fix! We can always tune the controller down and the AC-50 single package will be more suitable for "lower" performance.

[/quote]

Your specs indicate more than twice the stock torque which is common for electric cars, lots of torque. Not surprising at all that you would break something in the rear end. Sounds like to meet performance specs you originally envisioned you'll need a different rear end, tranny and most likely strengthened mounting point to keep it all attached to the 40 year old chassis. So is the end point a Spider body on a completely different drive train or will you de-tune it. Others seem to have a problem with critical questions being posed since they seem to think it indicates "hate" but I assume as someone who took this on you've thought about and have answers to these non-trivial questions.

[ElectricSpider]

Jeff you are correct in your review of current charging specs. This car has dual on-board 2500w chargers swithable to 1 thus 110/220v capable. The car has universal US Level 2 J1772 connectivity which allows use at about any public charge station... Charge Point, EVGo, Blink, etc. This is upgradeable and will accommodate technical progress. As a county driver, it drives nicely around town and with intermittent charging can be extended over 200 m per day. The paradigm of charging differs from gas and albeit your assumption is a total "bottom to top time", the car extends range by @20 mph on Level 2 (and it has a 110v versatility feature that is nice to use for slow overnight low rate TOU charging). It takes 5 kWhr with both chargers engaged. We can drop the Manzanita shop charger on for a "fast charge" but that must be monitored.

CCS or CHADeMo tech can be incorporated case by case but we are deferring inclusion until the statins are more widespread. Modular changes are easy and the car will live a long life with modular "improvement" ability. Battery and charging improvements can be incorporated easily as technology progresses. The cars are designed to progress and provide years of e-driving. It is odd to think that a better batter can enhance the existing motor performance.

Example in point: The Ferrari 308 project incorporated older battery tech in 2014-15 for its original pack: 28.5 kWhr Battery 1 P 48 S. That was 619 lbs overall and the newest pack that is currently going is lb/4/lb 42 kWh in the same 619 lbs and smaller space too. So we are upping the pack to 46 kWh in the same space with about 70lbs of additional weight. The new battery system, 7P40S has a 7x minimum amperage output rating vs the original pack so there will be NO stress on the pack. It will also have a much lower voltage sag thus providing significant performance increases to the existing motor package.

Regarding torque on the 124, it drives rally well when the clutch is not dropped at high rpm. The gears per OEM trans offers various "driving modes". 3rd gear offers 0-65 mph al day witout shifting but if you want to "push" the car.... thats when the fun starts. No issues under heavy acceleration. It handles really well and the power is accommodated with the smoothness of EV drive. We could drop a 132 driveline in I suppose but so far, the only damage has resulted from unnecessary driving aggressiveness. First 300 miles have been flawless. It is a treat to drive.

[ElectricSpider]

BTW, like to see the comments all around. It is a neat project that is about to have some fun with some global TV brands. Stay tuned for details! Even though we can build them "cheaper" that clearly is not the goal. Functional and reliable with a little "one of a kind" mentality is the concept. This is the 2nd project after the Ferrari 308 Salvation and it has a better likability factor. A bit addicting to drive. Here is an informal clip from Jehu...

https://youtu.be/-ye1FVpT0N8

[AriK]

Thanks for sharing. I could be a fly on the wall back in 1980 watching Fiat engineers witnessing this video.

Was that the clutch dump that snapped the driveline and spider gear as shown in the photo above?

Can you explain to me why there's sound upon acceleration as opposed to the silence witnessed on other mass produced electric vehicles?

[zachmac]

Electric spider: thanks for the quick response. Obviously a labor of love with some development yet to be worked out but an interesting project all the same. Best of luck to you.

Autotransgression: I posed reasonable questions and got reasonable answers from the owner. You on the other hand turned the question "why spend 85 grand on an electric Spider" into why drive a <10k Spider rather than a Corolla and acted like you had somehow addressed the question asked. Clearly we all prefer a funky 10k original Spider to modern cars when it comes to fun or we wouldn't be here. But I stand by the question; why would I want to take that fun 10k experience and turn it into a much more limited use 80k vehicle when I could instead buy any number of options for that cash? Or just buy 8 Spiders and enjoy them?

That question in no way trashes or denigrates what this guy is doing. He is having fun doing his own thing and I respect that. But asking why I would want to emulate that rather than enjoying the car as Fiat designed it and for what it is, a cheap 40 year old classic, is not unreasonable. If my asking that offends you then so be it. Didn't seem to bother the owner.

[ElectricSpider]

Thanks for sharing. I could be a fly on the wall back in 1980 watching Fiat engineers witnessing this video.

Was that the clutch dump that snapped the driveline and spider gear as shown in the photo above?

Can you explain to me why there's sound upon acceleration as opposed to the silence witnessed on other mass produced electric vehicles?

Pretty simple. We are turning the OEM driveline. Transmission, shaft, and the differential increase at higher RMP/Speeds. Noises that are not heard when driving a gas motor. It is actually very quiet in comparison to gas. Dead quiet at low speed. The dual motors make noise when run up to 6000 RPM.

[ElectricSpider]

Thanks for sharing. I could be a fly on the wall back in 1980 watching Fiat engineers witnessing this video.

Was that the clutch dump that snapped the driveline and spider gear as shown in the photo above?

Can you explain to me why there's sound upon acceleration as opposed to the silence witnessed on other mass produced electric vehicles?

Pretty simple. We are turning the OEM driveline. Transmission, shaft, and the differential increase at higher RMP/Speeds. Noises that are not heard when driving a gas motor. It is actually very quiet in comparison to gas. Dead quiet at low speed. The dual motors make noise when run up to 6000 RPM.

[DieselSpider]

124 volt is a little more DIY however I didn't catch whether that was DC or converted to AC.

Are the long runs of cable under the car full current or only from segments of the pack. Is there going to be shielding to protect them from damage in the final install?

I own a Leaf and a lot of work was done to prevent damage to the high current lines and prevent accidental contact.

All lines are from the contactor and rear/mid battery boxes. Per final build specs they are shielded. The bottom lines are encased in a fabricated steel sleeve. The photos per your comment show "build in progress". AC-34's are AC Induction Motors. (http://www.hpevs.com) We don't work with DC. These AC systems are proving ideal for older conversion projects. We still have more than enough power to substantially damage drivetrains! Point in case with this car. We had to have a little fun and test the limits Toasted the spider gear and snapped an axle clean! Nothing a little work doesn't fix! We can always tune the controller down and the AC-50 single package will be more suitable for "lower" performance.

Instant electric torque can tear things up. I was amazed at how Nissan had to beef up the electric motor mounts and front element to hold it all together. Traction control is almost a necessity especially if you want to get some decent life from the tires.

I thought at first that this was a personal project and not a commercial endevor. For those that want to try this on their own as a DYI project the Leaf would make an economical doner in the finacial grasp of many more folks.

Quite a few years back there was and electrical engineer from California that converted his Honda CVCC Hatchback and if memory serves me correctly he used a Siemens 3 phase electric motor and for a little extra kick he put in some large thyristors boosted by a frequency occilator. The thyristor capacitors allowed him to partially discharge the capacitors without wasting the complete charge in them every time he drew from them. He used all off the shelf components from the industrial electical supply house for his car to pove it could be done. I wish I had saved the info as I lost the link after a PC crash.

There are multiple options out there to fit different budgets and its all good if reasonable watch care is observed. I will say it was a erie experience the first time I drove my electric car without any AC, defroster or radio going and came to a stop llight in absolute total silence.

[bobplyler]

And on a different note...

This kinda looks like fun too.

[ElectricSpider]

Aligned the motor and drive line with the angle meter. Lowered motor @ 1" at front motor mount with a modified and newly water jetted bracket allowing use of original mount points and bushings. Milled the adapter plate back to accommodate the lowering of the trans to OE height - & centerlink bar. Cover plate to be installed tomorrow. Dropped controllers back in and will wrap up plumbing and wiring tomorrow as well. Pumpkin and new axle on the way from Matt @ Midwest Bayless.

[Sea1monkey2]

Hey ElectricSpider,

I'm also working on a DIY 124 EV project. My car is a 1978 Spider 124 1800 with rust and 72,000 miles. I'm planning on using an AC-34 72v and 1320 LG MJ1 18650's in a custom battery pack.

My question for you is, do you have the bolt pattern for the bell housing adapter?

I'm able to mill my own, and I want to maximize drivability until I purchase all of my components, so I don't want to tear the engine out to plot the holes until absolutely necessary.

I've been anxiously waiting for information on your project and products from it since your initial youtube videos about it from a good while ago.

[mscafide]

I would just like more updates on what they are doing and how the business side is doing.

As an aside, I am still recovering a bit from being on the easy side of Irma. Without electricity for over two weeks brings me back to a side project using the tide to generate electric power and store additional as potential energy or for other purposes.

The slow vertical energy lifts my boat and everything that floats. I am playing with converting the vertical energy to rotational to drive converted anternators (automotive) to use some of the 120v AC 60 cycle to do something. I can also use it to charge batteries directly and perhaps more than enough to power my house or much more.

I know there are batteries for solar storage that do just that and it could be worth it.

Looking for a Daf variable transmission. I also think some motor scooters use something like that also. Controlling the RPM within a not so narrow range also needs some thought.

Don't think outside the box, get a bigger box.

Mike

[ElectricSpider]

Hey ElectricSpider,

I'm also working on a DIY 124 EV project. My car is a 1978 Spider 124 1800 with rust and 72,000 miles. I'm planning on using an AC-34 72v and 1320 LG MJ1 18650's in a custom battery pack.

My question for you is, do you have the bolt pattern for the bell housing adapter?

I'm able to mill my own, and I want to maximize drivability until I purchase all of my components, so I don't want to tear the engine out to plot the holes until absolutely necessary.

I've been anxiously waiting for information on your project and products from it since your initial youtube videos about it from a good while ago.

It is in the system. Have not had a chance to get. We already have a billet Aluminum adapter plate for the AC-34/50 already cut.

[ElectricSpider]

I would just like more updates on what they are doing and how the business side is doing.

As an aside, I am still recovering a bit from being on the easy side of Irma. Without electricity for over two weeks brings me back to a side project using the tide to generate electric power and store additional as potential energy or for other purposes.

The slow vertical energy lifts my boat and everything that floats. I am playing with converting the vertical energy to rotational to drive converted anternators (automotive) to use some of the 120v AC 60 cycle to do something. I can also use it to charge batteries directly and perhaps more than enough to power my house or much more.

I know there are batteries for solar storage that do just that and it could be worth it.

Looking for a Daf variable transmission. I also think some motor scooters use something like that also. Controlling the RPM within a not so narrow range also needs some thought.

Don't think outside the box, get a bigger box.

Mike

Mike-

Will work on further updates. We have been inundated. Just had the Electric Ferrari 308 on Top Gear America Season 1 Episode 8 and it was time consuming from initial request in January. The Fiat with dual 34's is working out really well. No issues. Daily driving. It is fast as can be and no problems with driveline. Regen is working enough not to use the brake booster vacuum pump but I will get one on at some point for non-regen driving. That aside. the car is awesome. Feel free to look me up in San Diego to experience it. Anyone for that matter.

Still running on solar. Amazing to see the sun burn tires:)

Hutch

[ElectricSpider]

ElectricSpider, am I understanding your posted specs on the website correctly? They seem to indicate you can drive ~130 miles and then need to charge for ~7.6 hours?

Jeff-

Long delayed response! Range has proven to consistently get 100-120 on 36 kWhr's. We can take on 5 kW per hour on the charger. I rarely charge from bottom and usually plug in at various locations. We did run 90 miles to LA for an event at the high I-5 speeds and it was a blast. Free charge at our hotel and had more than enough time to charge it 2x over before am and we still drove around for evening social! Not the road trip car but fun reliable daily. Happy New Year.

Just starting another 125 build for export! I wish it were easier to drop photos here but will try to post pics during the build from start to finish.

Anyone have some of the early style bumpers for sale?? Converting an 82 to the more retro style!