New fuel gremlin on 84 FI

[vdesigner99]

New gremlin after three years of worry free driving on my 84'
I took car out, noticed that the gas gauge read empty. So went to station filled it up.
Went home and noticed that something was dripping from rear, gas. I lifted card and obvious that the original hose to pump was leaking at the union to the pump. Probably why the tank was empty after 3 week of no use. So I pinched the hose with vise grips about 10 inches from the pump and noticed that in doing so the hose kinda crunched. So I cut off about 1 inch and refitted and tightened hose clamp. Car would not start, WHAT! i went back down there and pulled hose, plenty of fuel being siphoned from tank. I think that the hose may have corroded and debris plugged the pump. Is is cleanable? I am also inclined to change the fuel hose, probably just standard fuel line from Autozone. My other question is if I pull the hose from the top of the tank is it going to spray everywhere or do I have to drain the tank first. I'm guessing that if I pull hose thru body and elevate above the tank there will not be a siphon effect.
Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Victor

[courtenay]

Unfortunately if your pump is plugged, it's likely pooched. They are cooled by the flow of the gas through them and if there's no gas, they will burn up. You might want to try taking the line off the engine side of the pump and see if gas is getting through before you replace.

[vdesigner99]

Thank you, any recommendations on Fuel pump brands? My head is spinning, I see from $50 to $500 and since I have an 84 even harder to find.

Victor

[rridge]

The best fuel injection pump brand for an FI Spider is...Bosch. They are the OEM supplier. The current Bosch catalog p/n is 69133 and they are widely available for about the same money as "Bosch style" pumps. Like many other FI components used on our cars, the pumps are not unique to Fiats and were used on many European cars of the 1980's. Google "Bosch" and "69133".

[lglade]

Talk to our trusty vendors, but you'll find that there are several who sell OEM style pumps at reasonable prices. But do the job right, and replace *all* of the soft lines from the tank to the injectors. I did mine in about a weekend, and it not only made the car safer and more reliable, but it also got rid of that constant odor of fuel too.

[vdesigner99]

Thanks for the awesome replies. So if I change the pump and fuel hoses. Does one have to prime the pump? Should I have a flow of fuel in the hose before I attach to the pump? Just preparing for the task this weekend! and minimizing the fuel spillage.

Victor

[courtenay]

I replaced mine (80 fi) with the generic brand from Auto Ricambi. Replaced the filter at the same time. No need to prime, connect it up and start the car.

[ORFORD2004]

Gravity run gas to the pump. Your tank will empty when you remove the hose from the tank to the pump. So, try not to smoke

[vdesigner99]

Hey guys, pardon the informality. I was ready to install a new fuel pump and was curious abort the wiring.
The wiring in the Pininfarina wiring book shows brwn-white to gnd and violet-blk to power.
However the wiring on my car is grn-blk and white blk. but what odd is with and ohmmeter neither is directly shorted to gnd and also I get 9.8 volts when I engage the starter across the leads instead of 12v. Maybe double relay is bad?
Any thought are welcome.

Victor

[ORFORD2004]

9.8 is not that bad because the car s not running. Find the positive wire using a voltmeter and plug that pump.

[focodave]

The ground wire for the pump should definitely be a solid, direct connection to ground.
The positive voltage is supplied by the dual relay. Sounds like the dual relay is probably OK, but you need to get the fuel pump ground wire traced and fixed so that it is properly connected to a solid ground.

This may or may not fix your original problem but it needs to be fixed, nonetheless...

BTW -- here is a pretty good write-up on the dual relay and how it works: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/DoubleRelay.html

Dave

[MikeHynes]

When the pump stops working it's usually toast. But you might be able to clear a plug by simply reversing the wires on it. The pump will work backwards and try and spit any debris out. Or, not, if it's plugged up good. In any event it doesn't hurt to try.
When you get a good pump to install I recommend placing a filter before the pump - between the pump and the tank. That will help prevent any future problems with debris entering and ruining the pump. A "strainer" type filter works best.

[courtenay]

When the pump stops working it's usually toast. But you might be able to clear a plug by simply reversing the wires on it. The pump will work backwards and try and spit any debris out. Or, not, if it's plugged up good. In any event it doesn't hurt to try.
When you get a good pump to install I recommend placing a filter before the pump - between the pump and the tank. That will help prevent any future problems with debris entering and ruining the pump. A "strainer" type filter works best.

Be very careful doing this. If the filter before the pump plugs up and starves the pump of fuel, it will burn out anyway. The best recommendation if you are getting gunk coming from your fuel tank to the pump is to remove the tank and have it professionally cleaned out. I expect most radiator repair shops could do this.

[MikeHynes]

Be very careful doing this. If the filter before the pump plugs up and starves the pump of fuel, it will burn out anyway. The best recommendation if you are getting gunk coming from your fuel tank to the pump is to remove the tank and have it professionally cleaned out. I expect most radiator repair shops could do this.

Yes, true, if the filter clogs it could burn up the pump. But, if there is enough trash running into the filter that it would clog the filter, then your pump will likely be trashed without the filter anyway. At least with the filter you can monitor it and change it before it plugs up. It works for me at least.
Excellent advise on getting the tank cleaned out if that's the source of debris. New tanks are available too. A pre-filter is good insurance with a clean/new tank too.

[spider2081]

but what odd is with and ohmmeter neither is directly shorted to gnd and also I get 9.8 volts when I engage the starter across the leads instead of 12v.

Its always best to measure voltage across the load so if you made your measurement with the pump connected that is best. The next test is to connect your meter ground wire to a clean ground and measure the voltage at the pump again. I believe the green black wire should read close to battery voltage and the white black wire should be less than 1 volt. Theoretically it should show 0 volts. The voltage reading on the white/black wire is showing you the condition of the ground connection that is located at the driver side tail light mounting stud in the trunk.
The cars did not come from the factory with a fuel filter before the pump. Many owners have added a filter before the pump to try and protect their pumps. The factory filter is installed after the pump.
If you have less that 1/2 tank of fuel its probably safe to disconnect the fuel line from the tank in the trunk. Then when you disconnect the fuel pump the the fuel will not siphon from the tank.