Valve tool

[apexwc]

Is this the correct valve tool for the spider? The auction said it was for a 124 but it did not say coupe or spider and I don't know if they're different. The tool looks different from the others I've seen. Anyone know what the hardened black piece on the top is for? It slides up and down a few mm. I also have questions about its use. I know you rotate the cam until the valve is open, insert the tool, then rotate the cam until you can remove the shim. I don't see how this can be done (assuming I have the correct tool) without turning the engine backward at some point because the cam lobe will not clear the tool and the tool can't be removed until the pressure is off. Does it do any harm to turn the engine backward? I can't see where it would hurt but I am by no means a mechanic, I just like fixing things.

[htchevyii]

The tool I just bought from Vick's looks similar, but without the handle. I haven't used it yet so I'm not much help though.

[So Cal Mark]

you do have to turn the motor backwards while using the valve tool. There is a danger that the timing belt can jump while turning the engine backwards since the slack in the belt changes to the other side in reverse rotation.

[Curly]

I've never had to turn the engine over at all Just set the cam so that the lobe is pointing away from the valve (ie valve is shut) insert the tool by pushing and rotating it to compress the spring and get maximum clearance, then pry out the shim, replace it with another one and then remove the tool. It really is quite a quick and simple job especially if you compare it to doing other twin overhead cam engines like Jags, Alfas and most Jap motors.

Forgot to add - Use a syringe to drain the camboxes of oil before you start. It makes the job less messy.

[kristoj]

The tool I just bought from Vick's looks similar, but without the handle. I haven't used it yet so I'm not much help though.

This is the tool that I purchased as well. I'm planning to do this job over the winter. The summers here are way to short to have your car out of service for maintenance, so I try to plan all that around the looooooong winters.

Does anyone have any additional tips for a first timer?

[mdrburchette]

Trying to get the shims out can be a bear. A little compressed air squirted in bucket slot pops them right out.

[nicktheviking]

I'd like to adjust my valves. How difficult is it? Can a shade tree mechanic with proper instruction & tools complete it in a day?

[mdrburchette]

Even a girl can complete it in a day. The only problem you'll run into is waiting for the correct size of shims or you could just buy the whole shim kit, but that costs a bit.

[ventura ace]

We may have time to take a peek at your valves after we play with the brakes on Thursday, Nick. It's recommended to check them the engine cold, after sitting overnight, but we could go through the paces so you can see how to check them. I have a collection of shims to work with.

Alvon

[mdrburchette]

I think I'm jealous, Alvon. You didn't offer to peek at my valves when you were over.

[ventura ace]

by mdrburchette on Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:58 pm

. . . You didn't offer to peek at my valves when you were over.

Sorry, my bad, Denise. It was a pretty hot day as I recall, I'd prefer to check them when they're cold. ;>)

Curly,
Good suggestion for using a syringe to drain out the residual oil. I haven't had the same experience as you with rotating the valve tool, however. Possibly my valve tool is poorer quality than yours. I bought it from one of the vendors a while back, and it's not hardened or smooth enough to use as you suggested. If I try rotating the tool, it tends to gall the edges that contact the bucket rim. I found it best to put the tool in place and rotate the engine. Rotating the engine backwards is not an issue provided that the timing belt is on snug, as it should be, and everthing rotates smoothly without slipping.

Alvon

[Curly]

Apologies for the sketchy description of changing valve shims that I posted earlier, I realise now that I didn't explain it very well.
Hopefully this time, with a picture, the procedure will be a bit clearer.
1. Firstly turn the engine over in the normal direction until the valve you are wanting to work on is closed and the lobe of the cam is pointing upwards, away from the valve.
2. Take Tool A with the black knob on the handle (see pic below) and push it firmly between the heal of the cam and the top of the shim in the bucket, then lever the tool downwards compressing the valve spring.
3. With the valve fully depressed, insert the other curved tool (Tool B) so that it sits with thin machined outer edge of the curve on the rim of the bucket and the inside curve of the tool under the camshaft.
4. Hold Tool B in place while you carefully remove Tool A. Tool B should then hold itself in place.
5. Find the slot in the rim of the bucket and insert a sharp pointed object underneath the shim and then lift it slightly (or blowing with compressed air will do the same thing) - remove the shim with a pair of pointy-nosed pliers or magnetic probe.
6. Replace with a new shim
7. Insert the Tool A again and compress the valve spring to release Tool B.
8. Pull Tool A out from between the cam and the shim.
9. Repeat for each valve that needs adjustment.

[ventura ace]

Ah, I see, Curly. You have an additional tool that most of us may not have: spatula Tool A with the black handle. I've got the double fingered tool shown earlier in this post, that has a similar profile to your Tool B.

To use the doulble fingered tool, I rotate the engine in the normal direction until the valve is depressed by the cam lobe, then insert the double fingered tool around the camshaft such that it will rest on the outer edges of the shim bucket. Then the engine is rotated either forward or backward (depending on intake or exhaust valves) to release the pressure on the valve shim from the cam lobe so that the shim can be removed and replaced. Then, releasing the tool requires that the engine be roated in the opposite direction such that the valve is depressed again by the cam lobe.

Alvon

[apexwc]

Thanks for clearing that up, Curly. I played around with mine and the only could get it in and out as by rotating the engine as Alvon said. I do not have tool A, it seems to be hard to find. It would make changing shims much easier. I tried it on one valve to see if would fit and how it worked. In this case I rotated the engine until the valve was open, inserted the tool, then rotated the engine backward until the cam lobe was pointed up. The problem came when I tried to rotate the engine forward to remove the tool (I was using the socket on the alternator pulley method). The engine did not want to move. I put it in gear and pushed the car until finally it began to move but only after the timing belt jumped a tooth or two. Once I got it going I could finish turning it with the alternator nut. Is it possible that the tool was binding the cam causing it not to move? The lobe was all the way up against the back of the tool, did I turn it too far? I don't know but it seemed like it was the cam that was not wanting to turn, not the engine. Is there something else the engine could have been binding on? The plugs were out, BTW.
Here's another question: If the '78 is a non-interference engine and I'm going to change the timing belt anyway, can I take the belt off, do the valves by rotating the cams by hand, then put the new belt on? If not, should I put the new belt on, make sure everything is lined up properly, and then do the valves?

[Jim DeShon]

When I worked for the dealerships [in my previous life], we didn't rotate the engine with the tool in place. I would put the car in 5th. gear and push it forward or back to position the valve I wanted to adjust so it was fully closed. THEN I would insert the tool and use a little compressed air and sometimes a small screwdriver to pop the shim out. A magnet can also be helpful. ...J.D.