New brakes

[wetminkey]

Installing into my '79 right now,...all new rotors, pads, calipers, hoses, and a new emergency brake cable, too.
"Young" 2000cc engine (with recent upgrades), strong TH180C, new driveline, and silky smooth differential,....suspension rebuilt years ago. My gosh, it only took me 20 years to be able to complete all the mechanicals,...! At least I had it protected all of these years, even if I couldn't finish it,...
Now it will be able to stop,...'cause I KNOW it will go,...!
Left to do: upholstery, dash repair (or replacement,...with installation of the new windshield I have stored right now), and paint (I'm finishing up all bodywork now).
I'll post pictorial threads as I complete the weird stuff,...
Todd.

[geospider]

Wow Todd,
You're still at it with projects. I guess it is important to be able to stop; details...
I've got a few things as well, I do hate the rattling in the exhaust. Another thing the PO did wrong.
Have a new inner shifter boot/seal to put in too. Will add another layer of heat shied to the trans tunnel while I am at it.

Get it stopping and go have fun for the rest of the summer.

Geo

[wetminkey]

Well, all would be good, except that I can't install new calipers over the new rotors and pads,...The rotors are too thick. I measure them to be 0.420"+/-, and Fiat Shop Manual says 0.3995" is max. dimension.
I've complained to Vick's, but I'll need to take them in and have them ground to proper thickness,...
Glad they're not too thin! But what an aggravation,...especially without foreknowledge.
Don't think I'll get much "fun-time" in, driving this car this year,...But, at this point, it would just be nice to take the damn thing around the block, for a change!!

[DieselSpider]

Many brake rotors if it isn't explicitly specified that they are "Bake Ready" or "Non-Directional Finished" and "Mill Balanced" are not machined to final thickness and will need to be turned to spec before you install them.

If they are brake ready then 0.0205" can usually be made up for by eliminating any anti-squeal pad on the backing plate and going with just the anti-squeal coating that you would be using anyways.

Also double check that the calipers are actually fully compressed using a clamp even if you've already done so as they do tend to creep/rebound sometimes.

[wetminkey]

Yeah, the calipers are brand new too, and came fully bottomed out, but I checked it again before attempting my initial install. Then I double checked by trying to install the opposite side, and had the same result.
The rotor sets that I have installed on my American cars and trucks must have been 'brake ready',...and so were the rotors on my '72 VW Superbeetle. Haven't had that experience in the past,...thanks.
Fiat Shop Manual states that they should be 0.3995" initially. I measure these at 0.425+/-. Odd that the included installation instructions warn to clean the rotors, but state nothing about resurfacing, or turning, them to thickness,...so I sent an email to Vicks' about that.
I'll have 'em turned down 0.030" this next week,...Sure was hoping that I was gonna finally drive this car this weekend, after all these years,...
And it will still need an alignment before I can really drive it,...bummer.

[geospider]

sorry for the frustration Todd.
I used rotors from AR and rebuilt my calipers (an easy job btw)
they all went right back together.
A fairly quick job once you get everything, so you'll be driving next weekend.

Geo

[wetminkey]

Thanks, man! Perhaps THAT'S why Vicks' rotors were so inexpensive,....!
It's OK,...I spent a good portion of the afternoon scraping 1/4" of dirt/oil coating off of the differential. Previous owner(s) did their best to ruin this car, and the evidence has never been cleaned up,...I think I've taken care of most of it now.
Probably enough crap to slow the Spider down,...!
Just REALLY got my hopes up, this time, geo. You know how long I've been trying to get this car running properly! Well, imagine the fact that I bought it in summer of 2000,...rebuilt the engine, suspension, and it got new brake pads in 2004,...and the car has gone less than 500 local miles since. It needed a lot more at the time,...and kinda got stored away. But no more,...should be done, mechanically.
Alignment, or no, the Spider and I are going to have a nice drive when I finally get the brakes bled!
Anyway, I hope this post will alert others to the fact that you'll need to measure your new rotors before installing them. Fiat says: "nominal: 0.3917 in. to 0.3995 in.",...

[wetminkey]

FYI, check online,...
I quote:
"New rotors, either OE or aftermarket, are supposed to be finished to specifications and ready to install out of the box. There should be no reason to give them a “clean up” cut. If there is one, you need to find a different rotor supplier."
As I was saying,...these should be finished and ready to use.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Todd, I would have also expected new rotors to be ready to install right out of the box. 0.020" isn't much, so perhaps your new rotors were meant for slightly thinner brake pads?

For more on the topic, see:
https://www.mirafiori.com/model/discbrake/

-Bryan

[wetminkey]

Well, my new Vicks' discs will soon be 0.399+/-", as per the Fiat Shop Manual.
I'm guessing that it's AutoRicambi pads and calipers, mixed with Vicks' rotors,...but the rotors are still too thick, per the manual. 9.95 mm - 10.15 mm, or 0.3917 in - 0.3995 in. is stated to be nominal brake disc thickness.
They won't fit with these pads and calipers, so they still need to be ground about 30 thousanths+/-,...no matter what. I don't care, I just want my Spider on the road!
And to warn others in case they have a similar situation,...I hated suddenly finding out at about 11 PM on a Friday night!!

While I was typing this, Matt, at Vicks', was kind enough to call me to talk about the situation over the phone. Turns out that AR's pads are over-sized by about 0.065 in +/-.

[DieselSpider]

I'd keep the extra beef on the rotors to get the most life from them and sacrifice the pads.

Did you take off any phenolic anti-squeal pads that were backing the brake pads off or at least measure their thickness to see if removing them and going with a spray coating would allow you to take advantage of the extra life built into the rotors?

Again I'd get the correct pads and save the oversized ones for after you actually need to turn the rotors.

Pads are a commodity item while rotors can become much more expensive the next time around.

[wetminkey]

So, when it's all sorted out, everyone has oversized stuff. Vicks' rotors are 0.065" over specs for sure, I've determined that already by measurement. Vicks' claims that AR's pads are too thick (and that I should be using thinner pads) but I do not have specs for that.
No matter what, the surface that wears is the pad surface. Therefore, I believe that the rotor should be to spec thickness and the pads as thick as the applicable calipers will allow.
Pads wear and rotors wear,...ya recycle 'em when the time comes. Hopefully, several sets of pads before replacing a set of rotors,...

[wetminkey]

No anti-squeal additions to these pads.
A set of pads were the same price as a rotor, so they didn't set me back much,...and this car will not be a commuter.
Anyway, I'm returning the new rotors to the PROPER THICKNESS for new rotors. Everyone seems to be missing that,...
Ya can't stuff fat parts in where there isn't enough room!
And as I think about it,...if your rotors are over 0.3995"+/-, then your pads are thinner than stock, and should be checked more often than normal,...otherwise you'll chew up those thick rotors and have to replace 'em anyway.

[wetminkey]

Well, my new rotors are to proper Fiat specs, but,...still doesn't fit.
I AM SO FRIGGIN' PISSED AT THE VENDOR THAT WILL NOT BE NAMED,...I'll say no more.
I think that I will be able to have my car's brakes reassembled tomorrow, thanks to Autozone ceramic brake pads.

[DieselSpider]

I understand the frustration. That's why I suggested trying the thinner pads first as they may have eliminated the frustration of having the rotors turned along with the wait times. Eventually the thicker pads would have fit and you would have kept those extra potential years of life from the rotors.