Hey guys,
I'm tackling the timing belt/water pump next. On my desk I have printed out the how-to guide for a 2000cc 1979 engine. The document is from mirafiori I believe.
Are there any differences to a 1978 1800? If yes does someone have a how-to for that specific engine?
Cheers
Steiny
Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
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SteinOnkel
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:31 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800
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dinghyguy
- Patron 2018
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:41 pm
- Your car is a: 1981 spider
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
go to Mira and read the post about timing belt tensioner bolt snapped the guide is wrong regarding the torque value.
Other than that i believe all is pretty much the same.
good luck
Other than that i believe all is pretty much the same.
good luck
1981 Red Spider "Redbob"
1972 blue Volvo 1800ES "Bob"
1998 Red Ford Ranger
1972 blue Volvo 1800ES "Bob"
1998 Red Ford Ranger
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18Fiatsandcounting
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
I agree with Dinghyguy: All should be pretty much the same between 1800 and 2L, assuming nothing goofy like needing to remove the crankshaft pulley or the like.
-Bryan
-Bryan
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SteinOnkel
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:31 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
It appears the OP misread the guide. 33ftlbs on an m8 is a tall order...
I'm going to refer to my wrist's torque indicator for most of this job, per usual
Side note: my brother has the uncanny ability to tighten everything JUST SHY of the breaking point. Which is fine, but dismantling anything he's put together is a nightmare.
@Bryan
What is the consensus on removing the pulley? I suspect that my TDC marks are BS and I want to double check those. 32mm socket, 1/2" drive? Or would a crow's foot be better?
I'm going to refer to my wrist's torque indicator for most of this job, per usual
Side note: my brother has the uncanny ability to tighten everything JUST SHY of the breaking point. Which is fine, but dismantling anything he's put together is a nightmare.
@Bryan
What is the consensus on removing the pulley? I suspect that my TDC marks are BS and I want to double check those. 32mm socket, 1/2" drive? Or would a crow's foot be better?
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ORFORD2004
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:48 pm
- Your car is a: 1983 PININFARINA
- Location: Sherbrooke, Qc, Canada
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
Why remove the pulley when you can put a screwdriver in spark plug hole 1 to check your mark?
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manoa matt
- Posts: 3442
- Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:28 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Spider 1800
- Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
The front crankshaft seal housing on the 1.8 is different than the 2.0. The 1.8 allows more room to remove the belt without needing to remove the front crankshaft pulley. But it depends on how greasy/oily it is back in there as everything on the front of the engine that leaks will drain down there. You can flush the area with break parts cleaner. Also depends on the condition of the front crankshaft seal, which can also be removed and re-installed without removing the aluminum housing from the block. How far do you want to push the snowball?
Loosen tensioner, slide off belt. Slide off belt from both camshaft pulleys and aux shaft pulley, then you need to guide and angle the belt to come out of the gap between the crankshaft pulley and the seal housing. Install is the reverse.
Loosen tensioner, slide off belt. Slide off belt from both camshaft pulleys and aux shaft pulley, then you need to guide and angle the belt to come out of the gap between the crankshaft pulley and the seal housing. Install is the reverse.
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SteinOnkel
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:31 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
Thanks Matt, that answers a few of my questions.
I hate timing belts where you need to remove the pulley.
So I took everything apart tonight. Don't have the new belt just yet, but it turns out I can align the marks with the old belt. It's tricky and I can see how it's super easy to get the exhaust cam out of alignment.
What's the best way to lock the crankshaft to keep it from rotating?
Side note/rant: If I find one more damn SAE fastener on this car, I will strangle the local "Fiat guru" that serviced this car. How lazy can you be??
The threads that hold the t-union are roached. Aren't those supposed to be studs with nuts? Anyways now I get to drill everything out and put in helicoils or bigger threads. Awesome!
I hate timing belts where you need to remove the pulley.
So I took everything apart tonight. Don't have the new belt just yet, but it turns out I can align the marks with the old belt. It's tricky and I can see how it's super easy to get the exhaust cam out of alignment.
What's the best way to lock the crankshaft to keep it from rotating?
Side note/rant: If I find one more damn SAE fastener on this car, I will strangle the local "Fiat guru" that serviced this car. How lazy can you be??
The threads that hold the t-union are roached. Aren't those supposed to be studs with nuts? Anyways now I get to drill everything out and put in helicoils or bigger threads. Awesome!
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18Fiatsandcounting
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
It looks like you got most of your questions answered, and so I'll just chime in with, "If you don't have to remove the crankshaft pulley, don't remove the crankshaft pulley." If you do need to remove the pulley, 32 mm sounds too small, and I would have guessed a 35 or 38 mm socket. 1/2" drive and long breaker bar. I could easily be wrong on the socket size, and maybe it differs between model years.
As far as locking the crankshaft to keep it from rotating, I don't bother. I just remove the old belt, slip the new belt loosely around the crankshaft cog, line up the camshaft and auxiliary shaft pulleys, use the "screwdriver in plug hole #1 method" to find TDC, and then slide on the new belt, with the exhaust cam pulley being the last one. Allow the tensioner pulley/spring to do its thing, then tighten the nut and bolt that are associated with that.
When you mention the T-union, you mean the one at the top of the cylinder head where the radiator hoses attach? Pretty common for these bolts to shear off since: 1) Fiat undersized the bolts, and 2) steel and aluminum in contact with each other are susceptible to corrosion, especially if there is hot coolant around.
-Bryan
As far as locking the crankshaft to keep it from rotating, I don't bother. I just remove the old belt, slip the new belt loosely around the crankshaft cog, line up the camshaft and auxiliary shaft pulleys, use the "screwdriver in plug hole #1 method" to find TDC, and then slide on the new belt, with the exhaust cam pulley being the last one. Allow the tensioner pulley/spring to do its thing, then tighten the nut and bolt that are associated with that.
When you mention the T-union, you mean the one at the top of the cylinder head where the radiator hoses attach? Pretty common for these bolts to shear off since: 1) Fiat undersized the bolts, and 2) steel and aluminum in contact with each other are susceptible to corrosion, especially if there is hot coolant around.
-Bryan
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SteinOnkel
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:31 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
Yep, that's the union I'm talking about.
I understand that these parts like to corrode, that's a given. What I have zero understanding for is grabbing an SAE fastener and ruining what's left of the metric thread. Or using SAE fasteners for the two top cover bolts. I'll be running to the hardware store and grabbing two m8x40 bolts for that along with a ton of washers.
On the union it looks like there might be enough meat for me to tap an m8 thread. I suspect it was originally m6.
Those are relatively easy, but 50% of the manifold bolts (both intake and exhaust) have suffered a similar fate. Seriously considering taking the head out and helicoiling left and right just for that, but that's a lot of work. I see no way to do it with the head in the car. Plus, you might hit an oil or cooling passage and then it's game over.
I understand that these parts like to corrode, that's a given. What I have zero understanding for is grabbing an SAE fastener and ruining what's left of the metric thread. Or using SAE fasteners for the two top cover bolts. I'll be running to the hardware store and grabbing two m8x40 bolts for that along with a ton of washers.
On the union it looks like there might be enough meat for me to tap an m8 thread. I suspect it was originally m6.
Those are relatively easy, but 50% of the manifold bolts (both intake and exhaust) have suffered a similar fate. Seriously considering taking the head out and helicoiling left and right just for that, but that's a lot of work. I see no way to do it with the head in the car. Plus, you might hit an oil or cooling passage and then it's game over.
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18Fiatsandcounting
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
Sorry, I misunderstood that the SAE fasteners and the roached bolts/threads on the T-connection were one and the same problem. You'll get no disagreement from me: cramming non-metric bolts into metric threads and hoping for the best is just inexcusable. Not that it will make you feel any better, but I've seen worse fixes! 
-Bryan
-Bryan
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dinghyguy
- Patron 2018
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:41 pm
- Your car is a: 1981 spider
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
It offends my respect for machinery when people don't use the proper fasteners! They don't deserve to be the custodians of equipment they treat like that.
I have learned that whenever i take a bolt and nut apart on a fiat it pays to run a tap or tie on the threads and cleant hem up. Yea it take a bit of time, but saves so much effort in the reassembly and in the future (and there is always a future right?)
cheers
Dinghyguy (ranting in the too small garage)
I have learned that whenever i take a bolt and nut apart on a fiat it pays to run a tap or tie on the threads and cleant hem up. Yea it take a bit of time, but saves so much effort in the reassembly and in the future (and there is always a future right?)
cheers
Dinghyguy (ranting in the too small garage)
1981 Red Spider "Redbob"
1972 blue Volvo 1800ES "Bob"
1998 Red Ford Ranger
1972 blue Volvo 1800ES "Bob"
1998 Red Ford Ranger
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18Fiatsandcounting
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
One of my favorite "fixes" was a picture I posted on Mirafiori:
https://www.mirafiori.com/forum/viewtop ... 57&t=98630
And yes, it is a nickel rather than a quarter. I guess you could call it a plug nickel.....
-Bryan (who is also fond of a good rant now and then, and not always in the garage)
https://www.mirafiori.com/forum/viewtop ... 57&t=98630
And yes, it is a nickel rather than a quarter. I guess you could call it a plug nickel.....
-Bryan (who is also fond of a good rant now and then, and not always in the garage)
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SteinOnkel
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:31 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
Yikes...
it also helps to have a good selection of new hardware on hand (helllooooo belmetric.com) and if not just stop what you're doing and run to the hardware store. Ace has a really good selection and decent quality of metric hardware.
And afterwards your engine bay looks much, much better.
it also helps to have a good selection of new hardware on hand (helllooooo belmetric.com) and if not just stop what you're doing and run to the hardware store. Ace has a really good selection and decent quality of metric hardware.
And afterwards your engine bay looks much, much better.
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SteinOnkel
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:31 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
I too had to rant a bit in the garage today. New belt and water pump is installed.
I got to play with a new toy today, the radiator test kit. Friggin awesome little thing and it made bleeding this thing so, so easy. Highly recommend.
So first rant: the little studs they give you with the water pump. For some reason I did not torque the actual studs when the pump was still outside of the car, no no that would have been easy. Instead I did that in the car, sort of. Why the factory doesn't just do this is beyond me. Anyways, I put everything together...pressurized the system....and....it's shooting out of the back side of the water pump. Great.
I take it apart, studs are finger tight. Nice. Torque them down, put the nuts on, put the coolant back in and...holding 16 psi...oh wait no it's not still leaking. Ugh. Take it apart a third time - now I'm like okay screw this where is the rtv silicone. The friggen brand new gasket that's in there starts to come apart. Really? Well one bead of silicone later - we're good.
Point the dizzy to #4 aaaand....nothing. Not even a cough. Okay, rotate it back to where it was (far too advanced), car starts right up.
And it sounds and runs...EXACTLY the same. *insert garage rant here*
Many expletives later:
https://youtu.be/vXTDijbETfA
Uganda be kidding me.
The gasket in there is less than two months old. It's one of those rubber and cork thingys and I installed it dry. I have been spoiled by cnc machined metal surfaces from my VW...
Anyways, going to grab a new one and this time apply some liquid sealant as well. Fingers crossed!
I got to play with a new toy today, the radiator test kit. Friggin awesome little thing and it made bleeding this thing so, so easy. Highly recommend.
So first rant: the little studs they give you with the water pump. For some reason I did not torque the actual studs when the pump was still outside of the car, no no that would have been easy. Instead I did that in the car, sort of. Why the factory doesn't just do this is beyond me. Anyways, I put everything together...pressurized the system....and....it's shooting out of the back side of the water pump. Great.
I take it apart, studs are finger tight. Nice. Torque them down, put the nuts on, put the coolant back in and...holding 16 psi...oh wait no it's not still leaking. Ugh. Take it apart a third time - now I'm like okay screw this where is the rtv silicone. The friggen brand new gasket that's in there starts to come apart. Really? Well one bead of silicone later - we're good.
Point the dizzy to #4 aaaand....nothing. Not even a cough. Okay, rotate it back to where it was (far too advanced), car starts right up.
And it sounds and runs...EXACTLY the same. *insert garage rant here*
Many expletives later:
https://youtu.be/vXTDijbETfA
Uganda be kidding me.
The gasket in there is less than two months old. It's one of those rubber and cork thingys and I installed it dry. I have been spoiled by cnc machined metal surfaces from my VW...
Anyways, going to grab a new one and this time apply some liquid sealant as well. Fingers crossed!
-
SteinOnkel
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:31 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800
Re: Timing Belt Guide for a 1.8
I too had to rant a bit in the garage today. New belt and water pump is installed.
I got to play with a new toy today, the radiator test kit. Friggin awesome little thing and it made bleeding this thing so, so easy. Highly recommend.
So first rant: the little studs they give you with the water pump. For some reason I did not torque the actual studs when the pump was still outside of the car, no no that would have been easy. Instead I did that in the car, sort of. Why the factory doesn't just do this is beyond me. Anyways, I put everything together...pressurized the system....and....it's shooting out of the back side of the water pump. Great.
I take it apart, studs are finger tight. Nice. Torque them down, put the nuts on, put the coolant back in and...holding 16 psi...oh wait no it's not still leaking. Ugh. Take it apart a third time - now I'm like okay screw this where is the rtv silicone. The friggen brand new gasket that's in there starts to come apart. Really? Well one bead of silicone later - we're good.
Point the dizzy to #4 aaaand....nothing. Not even a cough. Okay, rotate it back to where it was (far too advanced), car starts right up.
And it sounds and runs...EXACTLY the same. *insert garage rant here*
Many expletives later:
https://youtu.be/vXTDijbETfA
Uganda be kidding me.
The gasket in there is less than two months old. It's one of those rubber and cork thingys and I installed it dry. I have been spoiled by cnc machined metal surfaces from my VW...
Anyways, going to grab a new one and this time apply some liquid sealant as well. Fingers crossed!
I got to play with a new toy today, the radiator test kit. Friggin awesome little thing and it made bleeding this thing so, so easy. Highly recommend.
So first rant: the little studs they give you with the water pump. For some reason I did not torque the actual studs when the pump was still outside of the car, no no that would have been easy. Instead I did that in the car, sort of. Why the factory doesn't just do this is beyond me. Anyways, I put everything together...pressurized the system....and....it's shooting out of the back side of the water pump. Great.
I take it apart, studs are finger tight. Nice. Torque them down, put the nuts on, put the coolant back in and...holding 16 psi...oh wait no it's not still leaking. Ugh. Take it apart a third time - now I'm like okay screw this where is the rtv silicone. The friggen brand new gasket that's in there starts to come apart. Really? Well one bead of silicone later - we're good.
Point the dizzy to #4 aaaand....nothing. Not even a cough. Okay, rotate it back to where it was (far too advanced), car starts right up.
And it sounds and runs...EXACTLY the same. *insert garage rant here*
Many expletives later:
https://youtu.be/vXTDijbETfA
Uganda be kidding me.
The gasket in there is less than two months old. It's one of those rubber and cork thingys and I installed it dry. I have been spoiled by cnc machined metal surfaces from my VW...
Anyways, going to grab a new one and this time apply some liquid sealant as well. Fingers crossed!