Rebuilding Sofia - 1971 Spider in Oz

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Nice! My recollection is similar to RRoller in that my "factory" ground attaches from the underside of the body to one of the three bolts that hold the starter motor to the bellhousing. I usually also attach a second ground cable from the body to an engine mount or an unused stud on the engine block.

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

There is also that small ground wire, maybe 14 or 16Ga (?) that runs up to the back of the exhaust side cambox, rear cover. Ring terminal to one of the cover screws. I assume that they had some ground isolation problems and added this one too.

These second engine grounds ensure that your clutch cable will not act as the ground, and thereby destroy itself.

Cheap insurance.

[Sambo42]

By the sounds of it I should just ground the block and the cambox to the body and the battery at least 3 times!

Thanks folks - will post another question about people's views on wiring loom aesthetics shortly...

[18Fiatsandcounting]

By the sounds of it I should just ground the block and the cambox to the body and the battery at least 3 times!

As a Fiat buddy of mine used to say, "Rust is the root of all evil that lies within Fiats." There's not just the aesthetic issue, but structural integrity, watertightness, and of course electrical connections. If the Fiat bodies didn't tend to rust in so many ways, one ground cable would be fine. But, since many of the ground attachment points tend to rust themselves, more than one ground is often required...

-Bryan

[Sambo42]

Aaaaargh! Have just written a long post only to discover I was logged out before I could post!

Anyway - a quick update - slowly getting there with 3 steps forward and 2 steps back every step of the way....

I have now just about got everything settled in the engine bay. Have test fitted radiator (taking the radiator fan apart to respray) with new hoses and polished thermostat. Made up a bracket for the brake fluid reservoirs. Air filter housing now power coated, along with the bracket I made up to hold the new relays (for headlights and radiator fan override switch; wiper motor relay coming up next). Waiting on a new starter solenoid (it's been 3 weeks now - worried that Australia post have lost it somewhere) since the old one was dead.

Electrical gremlins persist - headlights have been on again/off again, and no indicators - but have managed to fix the ignition swithch. I ordered a new one but while waiting took the old one apart and I seem to have fixed it. So now I have a spare. At least I should have enough electrons to get the motor running...

On the interior side, the left side door is now complete, and speakers are in. Right side window winder mechanism a problem - I've ordered a brand new one but the cable seems to be too short for my door. Are there different length cables? I've gone back to my old one to try and make that work (the one I just replaced then ran into problems with) - that one seems to be too long! Can't work out what to do other than put a new pulley in somewhere to add a little extra tension. Has anyone else had this problem or is it just me?

Engine bay - radiator in, new brake fluid reservoir mounting plate


Left side door

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Amazing progress Sambo, it looks great! A few thoughts:

1. I ordered a window regulator mechanism from eBay one time, and it was for a 124 but it didn't fit my spider. I figured they were all the same, but I think there are differences in the cable length between the 124 sport spider and the 124 sport coupe, and possibly the 124 sedan. Maybe that's the issue you face?

2. Is your left inner door handle upside down? The ones I've seen have the angled part facing upward. Perhaps your left and right handles are switched (like other mechanical items in your part of the world!).

3. You know, if I didn't notice the differences in where the brake booster and MC are, I would swear that is my car. Same '71, same red color, same black interior, and the same metal shelving in the background with boxes of parts and tools. Uncannily similar...

-Bryan

[Sambo42]

Well it looks like operator error is to blame as usual. Went back to my old window winder mechanism and finally worked out that the wires need to cross as they come off the drum. If not, tension is all wrong. Also took me about 3 goes to work out which wire runs behind which - I spent ages trying to stop them rubbing against each other. One small little pointer - when you get your new winder mechanism, if you make the mistake, that I did, of taking off the clip too early (which can make the cable unspool from the drum) - hang your mechanism from a high point (nail on a wall etc), rewind the cable drum under tension, then use masking tape to tape the wires together as close as possible to the point where they come off the drum. This will stop the cables unspooling before you replace the winder, and is relatively easy to undo once the winder is back in the door.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Yes, I think you're right. I don't have a door panel off right now for me to take a look, but my recollection is that the wire that comes off the top side of the drum angles downward to the adjustable idler wheel near the bottom of the door, and the wire that comes off the bottom side of the drum angles upward to the top idler wheel near the front of the window.

-Bryan

[Sambo42]

And I forgot - just for Bryan - those door opening handles only go on that one way. Maybe that's how they built the German cars? There are 2 lugs on the spindle that they mount on, so each handle can only mount in one position. If I flip the RHS handle to the LHS it will only mount in a position that's rotates the handle approximately 60 degrees counterclockwise - which buries it in the armrest. Huh.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Weird, Sambo, but I hear what you're saying about the door handles. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it looked "odd" to me. But perhaps that's the way it is on your model.

Unless.... Unless... ...Your inner door open/lock mechanisms are switched from left to right.

But, sometimes it is best not to test the deity known as "FIAT". S/he can send a lot of wrath in your direction. In my experience, wrath is usually not good.

-Bryan

[Sambo42]

A short and boring update with no pics. Must think of something to take a photo of. Having test fitted the radiator I took it back out and took it apart to powder coat the radiator fan frame and paint the fan and motor. Now plating the nuts and bolts before I put it back in and fill the radiator.

Have been trying to figure out brake, clutch and accelerator pedal (especially since this is now all swapped L to R). Accelerator now mounted and I have fixed a spring to allow it to return to the start position. I now need a cable of appropriate length and a ball socket to attach to the carburettor (something like this: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stainless-S ... 0005.m1851) - anyone else convert their accelerator from the pushrod early system to the cable system? And my latest battle is with the clutch pedal return spring - I had the hook mounted to what I thought was the right place on the rear of the pedal but in order to get it to fit it hangs over the axle which the pedal mounts to. This results in a sort of cam effect - once the pedal is pushed in 1/2 way it sinks to the floor. Hmm. At least the brake pedal works properly...

[Sambo42]

Just to illustrate my clutch pedal question (maybe I've just solved it?) - here is a spare clutch pedal and the hook which attaches to the pedal return spring. You can see the axle/shaft that the pedal mounts to. The workshop manual clearly shows the hook mounting over the top of the shaft (first photo). However if you depress the pedal, the angle of the hook and the shaft means that there is a cam effect which causes the pedal to sink to the floor. The second photo shows the hook reversed - is this the way I should mount it? It's tempting to drill a whole new hole in the pedal slightly lower down just to make sure but I can't bear the thought of taking the pedal box out again...

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Ahhhh, the infamous clutch spring! Behold, this shall indeed test ye wits and strength, and whether ye be of bone and muscle, or mere fluff (for lack of a better word).

Actually, it's not a clutch return spring. It's a "help the driver push down the clutch pedal" spring. So, the installation as shown in the manual is correct, and this spring should pull the pedal to the floorboard when nothing else is attached. Seems counter-intuitive, I know. The clutch fork/throwout bearing on the clutch plate and the outer spring from the fork to the transmission are the ones that actually pull the clutch pedal back up.

-Bryan

[Sambo42]

IT LIVES!!!!

Well after much trial and tribulation....I finally got the engine started!! Video below - and sounding extra rough thanks to a) not having an exhaust header gasket fitted, and b) not having the muffler on the exhaust. Finally got the starter motor sorted, clutch now installed (and return spring returned to the way it should be...), and cable driven accelerator (I need to work on the choke cable next and finish off the bracket I whipped up to get the accelerator cable to work). Brake needs bleeding next, and then gearshift can go back in.

A question about timing - am pretty sure my distributor timing is off. However - I have no timing belt cover, AND the marks on my crankshaft pulley wheel point to about 10 0'clock with no 1 piston at TDC. How do I go about sorting the timing??


I made up a little bracket to mount the accelerator cable to. Needs a couple of reinforcements then plating:



And a brief video of the engine running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epDnt7HwSI0

[18Fiatsandcounting]

A question about timing - am pretty sure my distributor timing is off. However - I have no timing belt cover, AND the marks on my crankshaft pulley wheel point to about 10 0'clock with no 1 piston at TDC. How do I go about sorting the timing??

Congratulations on getting it running! Regarding your question on ignition timing, this is hard to do without some sort of timing reference on the engine block, whether that be on the timing belt cover or a bracket on the passenger side of the engine near the crankshaft. I think you said you have a 2L engine, and so I'm guessing that your timing reference marks would be on a bracket attached to the cover plate for the front crankshaft oil seal, and it sounds like you don't have that bracket.

But, here's what you can do to get you in the ballpark: Turn the engine so that cylinder #1 is at TDC, and try to do this as accurately as you can. Then, using a Sharpie pen or the like, put some marks on your camshaft pulleys right next to the pointers on that bracket that spans the top of the two pulleys. Either pulley or both, your choice. Then use a timing light to set the ignition timing so that your Sharpie mark(s) is exactly opposite the pointed ends of that bracket. This will put you at 0 oTDC. You can advance the ignition timing so that the timing light flashes when the Sharpie marks are about 1/4" counterclockwise from the pointers, and that would be about 10 oTDC. These are very rough, but again, it might get you closer than you are now.

-Bryan