Body Sag?

[rodo]

After years reached the point on my 82 where I am rebuilding the front suspension. With the wheels/brakes/disks/hubs off, and the "axels" sticking out, it is clear that one of them is not level. Knowledgable friend had a look inside the fender and engine compartment and suggested that it either had been in an accident or is sagging. (Doors open/close okay, however.) Not sure about next steps. Straightening a unibody is way above my pay grade. Do I even want to think about having it towed to some body shop? And what do they do? And might it be so expensive it just isn't worth doing?

Sigh.

Me: It's going to be a great car! We'll have so much fine driving it with the roof down!
Wife: (Just stares with The Look.)

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Have you had the front end aligned? If not, I'd take the car to a good alignment shop and have them take a look. A shop that specializes in this work, not a wheel and tire store that happens to do alignments. If the car can be aligned OK, then I doubt that there is much else that can be done at reasonable cost or effort.

-Bryan

[rodo]

thanks, Bryan. Nope, not had it aligned. I've never driven it. It has not run in a dozen years. PO is a friend and I am sure he did not know about this, either. Okay, when I get the bits put back together up front I'll drag it in.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

My guess is that you'll be fine with an alignment. My two current spiders ('69 and '71) have been hit from many angles over the years, but with a good alignment, they seem OK.

-Bryan

[rodo]

That is encouraging! Thanks again.

Meant to ask: what do you mean by "good alignment shop?" Surely a reputable tire shop that knows what they are doing is okay? I'm not sure if you meant something else by that.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

By "good alignment shop", I mean a place that has the right specs for your model and year. I have taken my various spiders to many alignment shops over the years, and not a single one has loaded the appropriate weights in the driver and passenger seats as is specified for the alignment. In addition, some apparently use the specs for the 124 coupe figuring "it's close enough".

Perhaps it's just me, but every shop that I've gone to has jacked the car up on the lift, looked up some specs for a "Fiat" and then set my camber, caster and toe-in to whatever their book (LCD screen) says. The spec says 50 kg in the driver's seat? No issue, we'll just ignore that.

I hate to be negative, but almost every alignment that I have had done has come back with steering or tire wear issues. So, I prefer to do the alignment myself. Tons of work, and perhaps not as precise, but at least there's an attempt to do it right. All this would be solved by finding a good alignment shop, and I wish you luck in that quest.

-Bryan

[rodo]

That is huge, Bryan, thanks. Never would have considered there is kind of an old school way of doing the alignment. I'm sure few alignment shops would go to half that trouble! Okay, I'll search around and see. Great advice. Fingers crossed for the body being alignable.

[DieselSpider]

Many shops have the specks in their racks computers however they do not laden the car before aligning it. With the car unladen due to the old fashioned double a-arms with coil springs and multi-link steering the front wheels are toed in when the car has no driver in it and as you add a driver, passenger, parcels, etc the front wheels start to toe out. When they align the car to the laden specs without putting 150 lbs in each front seat and 130 lbs in the trunk then the front wheels will be toed out once you sit in the car and laden it which can cause severe inner tire wear so its critical that the shop understands these old school cars and the need to do the alignment with the car laden.

Some of the new techs don't even know how to manually punch in the un-laden specs even if you provide them.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

DieselSpider added much more detail to what I was getting to (thank you for that), and don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing all alignment shops. There are some folks out there who know what they are doing and will get it right. There are also lots of "wheels/tires/shocks/alignment" shops that will not know how to do it right on your older car.

It's funny, I remember the first alignment I did on my '69 spider, and the guy actually let me crawl under the car with him as he did the alignment, showing me what each adjustment did. Try doing that in these days and times!

-Bryan

[baltobernie]

My chief complaint with alignment shops is their tendency to ignore factory specifications of fastener torque. They usually have an assortment of the proper shims necessary, but are clueless of the correct torque values:



Most of us use caution with tire shops, who will unknowingly use double the recommended torque on the wheel bolts unless informed. But it is easy to break off the crossmember studs when performing a front-end alignment. Repair of the crossmember is very expensive.

I'm assuming you have already inspected the various suspension components for excessive play, strut tower rust, etc. Even a crooked car can be aligned to go straight down the road. If the left and right wheelbases are different, however, it won't handle corners very well.

A good source for recommendations of front-end shops is your local vintage car clubs. We tend to overlook this resource, but nearby owners of British or even American cars can often steer you to a knowledgeable shop.