pulling motor with starter attached

[81SPIDERMATT]

can it be done? is the starter attached to the motor? or do bolts go thru the tranny tunnel somehow....
tranny is staying engine is coming out
are there 4 bolts holding tranny to motor?

thanks....Matt

[81SPIDERMATT]

and when you end up saying the starter has to come out..... do i attack the bolts from the engine bay or from under the car back to front?

[tima01864]

Starter bolts to the bellhousing, Two bolts on top two on the bottom thru the bellhousing to the engine. Things may go easier if you remove the Cylinder head.

[DaveMarcotte]

and when you end up saying the starter has to come out..... do i attack the bolts from the engine bay or from under the car back to front?

It's a bitch but had to do it from under the car. I had to have two long extensions and universal joint on the ratchet. Got to feel for the bolt. Easier coming out than going in.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Matt, I think your question has been answered, but just one suggestion: Make sure you disconnect the car battery before working on the starter. A metal tool dropped in the wrong place can really ruin your day...

-Bryan

[81SPIDERMATT]

thanks guys.... remember reading extensions were involved sometime back but thought that was for tranny disconnect ... good thing santa stuffed my stocking this year with some extensions.... yesterday was spent disconnecting everything and i am down to the starter and 3 of 4 of the tranny bolts are loose .....

now to figure out where the lift chain will go

will i have to support the front of tranny or will it behave ..... thought i would put a jack under it so i can move it a bit for disconnect.... guess i could just leave it

breakfast (i havent eaten all year) then get a fire started in the shop and back at it .... hope to have motor hanging by dark ... thanks for all your help .... simple questions seem to be the ones that make me overthink the most....Matt

[Nut124]

I have always pulled and installed my engine with the trans attached. I hate working under the car I guess.

I know a Fiat mechanic; he says he can swap a tranny working underneath in less than an hour. Perhaps he's boasting a bit but I sure would not want to try. Then again, once you learn how and have all the tools, it is easy.

[RRoller123]

When Tim and I pulled our engines and transmissions last Spring, the easiest sequence seemed to be:

(Danny at Fun Imported agreed with this as far as EASE goes)

Pull the Head, Pull the Intake, Pull the Starter, Pull the Transmission from below, Pull the Short Block.

It actually wasn't too bad, no contortions. Might not be the fastest or most efficient, but it made the whole thing a hell of a lot easier. Pull the transmission with the shifter removed from below, quite easy, actually.

[wetminkey]

WOW! Disassembly-City!! OMG!
I just installed my tranny, with a small, rolling jack, and with the front end only raised about ten inches. It did not take much more than an hour, or so.
And I re-installed the engine today with no more than a chain hoist and my small jack. This is the second time that I've disassembled/reassembled the drivetrain this way. It's not fast, but it works just fine,...
My engine is fully assembled, with both manifolds in place. I used the manifolds to lift the engine,...!
Todd.
P.S. BTW, to pull the motor, the starter has to come out,...

[RRoller123]

Depends what you are doing, if just pulling the transmission, then get under the car, remove the shifter completely by removing the 3 bolts on the securing plate, and remove the shifter completely. This is so much easier than screwing around with the center console! And then the shifter assembly can be cleaned and lubed up properly as well. I found the plastic ball on my shifter was broken, cracked. Got a new one at that time. Shifts more smoothly now. Then remove the drive shaft and transmission. Not too bad, after we did it once, the second removal took no more than an hour.

If doing other work, take the head off with the Intake still fully attached, just remove the 2 fuel lines, etc. Makes that all much easier. With a swivel head socket wrench, long handled, you can then get at those top starter and the transmission bolts quite easily (relatively speaking) from inside the engine compartment. Swivel head bent backwards in upon itself. Really simplifies this, and the children won't learn new bad words.

[wetminkey]

GOODNESS! Pulling the head, just to pull the engine out,...just amazing! I sure did not have much trouble getting to the starter bolts and bellhousing bolts. Long run, for a short slide,...I just needed engine out, not disassembled.
I haven't found out what project Matt is working on yet,...he's been busy enough to limit emails in the past couple of days.
Combination wrenches will access the driver's upper bellhousing and starter bolts in question. Lower bellhousing bolts require a 19mm socket from below, and passenger's upper bellhousing bolt is difficult - had to get it with extensions, from below,...
The chore that I dread the most during this process, is realigning an engine dangling from a chain hoist with an already installed tranny. I've done my Spider twice now. Slow process, but it works perfectly in my situation.
Now that I think about it,...I've only used an engine hoist once, long ago. All of my other engine pulls have been with my chain hoist - never saw much advantage,...
Best of luck, Matt!

[tima01864]

Raise the question of why are you pulling the engine. If the head is coming off why not just do it now. My build it was going to be just the cylinder head then evolved into the short block.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

It sounds like we each have methods for pulling the engine that work for us, so here's mine:

Remove hood. Drain coolant and remove the radiator. Drain engine oil. Remove the cylinder head (I just work out for 6 months until I'm buff and then lean over the front of the car and lift the head off by hand, intake manifold still attached). Remove the starter (much easier now with the head off). Support the transmission with a jack under the transmission oil pan. Remove nuts on the engine mounts. Raise the transmission just slightly with the jack (about an inch). Remove the 4 bolts that hold the transmission bellhousing to the engine. Wrap a rope around (or a chain attached to) the engine, whatever seems appropriate. Put a thick towel across the crossmember in front of the radiator. With one foot on that crossmember and one foot in front of the cowl, dead lift the engine up to clear the engine mount studs, forward a few inches, and then upwards, and place on the crossmember (see the part above about working out until totally buff). Jump down off the car and lift that bad boy onto the ground.

Part of the reason I do it this way is that I never had access to an engine hoist or a lift. Many engine pulls were done in parking lots or in someone's driveway. Anyway, about a good half day's work, assuming no issues.

-Bryan

[81SPIDERMATT]

ok thanks guys .... new clutch going in and 2 rear exhaust manifold bolts are stripped and will get drilled and helicoiled .... most likely will resurface flywheel ...but if it looks good maybe not .... the least i can take off the engine the better ....not even sure if i am draining the oil..... yesterdays work came to a screeching halt because of my lack of metric sockets ...but the shop got a great cleaning and started to fab up a wooden stand thing so i can work with it off the hoist ..... need to chop wood for the stove in the shop... need to run in to town and grab some sockets.... and making chili always makes me lazy ....

got all the parts i need to replace clutch ..fix the bad holes .... needed gaskets ... quick and dirty .. Todd's car will be done soon and he needs someone to chase ..... Ill keep you posted.... Matt

and Bryan ..you are on my zombie team for sure

[18Fiatsandcounting]

and Bryan ..you are on my zombie team for sure

Sure thing, I'm always ready for the next apocalypse.

Keep us updated as you progress on the engine. And how the chili turned out.

-Bryan
PS: I vaguely recall some Fiat flywheels had a slight "concave-ness" to them. If you resurface the flywheel, make sure the shop checks for this. Personally, I'd just leave the flywheel alone unless it's warped or severely heat-scored.