Hello from a New 78 Spider Owner in Dallas/Fort Worth Texas Area

[nvillacci]

Hi Folks,

So I went ahead and had my midlife crisis early at 41 (that is early right?!).
Bought myself a '78 Spider from a local seller. After taking it in for a pre-sale inspection, it came clear except for a reverse grease-zert and needing a couple of engine mount spacers.


Now this little girl has had its engine rebuilt and the tranny rebuilt already. For the most part she is solid except for interior work needing to be done from what I can tell.

A couple of things I am wondering about:

1. First gear seems to have a very short working area - in fact if I push first too hard it slips back into neutral. Is this normal on these older cars?
2. The interior noise.... just wow! Every decent bump I hit or turning the wheel, it squeeks or clatters. Now granted, the interior is bare metal in many areas... but is this the norm? The mechanic who checked her out is an older man whos worked on FIATs most his life, he told me this was an excellent car in the shape its in. Well maintained and running.


Also the muffler is LOUD. I believe its the original size needed. The engine runs fast when just starting, then drops down into a low rumble.
Is there anything I can do to quiet her down? I am thinking some material in the engine compartment and to check for things rattling against each other.


Here is the instagram of my new purchase - https://www.instagram.com/p/CKeQPe4s1Nw ... ok3YzxrQ0/

Working on restoring some small things like the mirrors, installing some visors, etc.

Ive already gone under the car and messed with a small engine mount spacer install (the oil pan was getting rubbed on).

Happy to learn and be here!

Nick

[TX82FIAT]

Nick, great looking car. Most of us can not claim the car is older than we are on this site. First and second gear are pretty quick shifts even when gearing out to get up and go. These are the only real shifts where your hand is still on the stick shift. If it is popping out of first, I would suspect you have an issue with your transmission. You should have a catalytic converter under the passenger seat along with a period correct standard muffler in the back. Stock exhaust is not that loud. Depending on headers used, other mods and what you have under the passenger seat it should not be that loud. See if you have modified exhaust or the exhaust is leaking someplace. Looking at the turn signal mod it is possible the exhaust was opened up a little from stock. The Cat converter gets clogged and depending on where you live many people replace or remove. If no CAT you could upgrade the muffler or put a bottle resonator in line to dull the sound down. Check the status of your CAT.
Careful, you don't want to influence the exhaust note too much as many of us enjoy the sound of a well tuned spider. As far as cabin noise, well, you will have road noise even if you insulate the floor and trans tunnel. Top up or top down the car will be loud. You can track down the rattles and eliminate them one by one and a well sorted car should not have a lot of things rattling, still, it will be loud at highway speed. Unless you have the best convertible top install I've seen to date, wash car by hand and not in drive through car wash as water will come in gaps. The car has drain holes as part of the design but I don't like getting too much water in. You own a cool little car that will give you a smile for years to come.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

1. First gear seems to have a very short working area - in fact if I push first too hard it slips back into neutral. Is this normal on these older cars?

Nick, no it is not normal, but I'm not sure what you mean by pushing too hard. Do you mean giving the engine gas and revving it, or pushing on the shift lever? In either case, the transmission should not pop out of first gear. If it does, we'll have to help you figure out why.

2. The interior noise.... just wow! Every decent bump I hit or turning the wheel, it squeeks or clatters. Now granted, the interior is bare metal in many areas... but is this the norm?k

No, what you describe does not sound normal, including the parts about bare metal. I can't think of anything in the interior that is bare metal, with the exception of the window crank, door opening lever, shift knob lever, window and vent window frames, etc. But, squeaks and clatters sound like you have something wrong with the suspension. I know you had it looked over by a mechanic, but it kinda sounds like he might have missed some things. You might take the car to an independent mechanic to have a look, or just describe what you've got and we can offer suggestions.

As for loud mufflers, either you have a hole in the muffler, or pieces of the original exhaust system are missing. These cars aren't stealth-like silent, but they shouldn't be overly raspy or loud.

-Bryan

[TheBender]

Welcome to the group. I’m in Dallas with a ‘78 too. Did you take it to Robert at Shadetree? If so he is amazing. If not, that’s who you need to consider going to.

Just got mine back from my yearly check with him and it’s running simply amazing. Originally mine popped out of second and I went ahead and replaced the transmission. Not sure if there’s some tweaks or service you can do, but definitely not normal. I’ve worked through the squeaks and now have a solid and non squeaking car as well as a completely redone interior. Great thing about DFW is we have great resources locally with Autoricambi (my preferred local) and Vicks both here. Plus a lot of other vendors with great knowledge and parts available online.

[nvillacci]

Nick, great looking car. Most of us can not claim the car is older than we are on this site. First and second gear are pretty quick shifts even when gearing out to get up and go. These are the only real shifts where your hand is still on the stick shift. If it is popping out of first, I would suspect you have an issue with your transmission. You should have a catalytic converter under the passenger seat along with a period correct standard muffler in the back. Stock exhaust is not that loud. Depending on headers used, other mods and what you have under the passenger seat it should not be that loud. See if you have modified exhaust or the exhaust is leaking someplace. Looking at the turn signal mod it is possible the exhaust was opened up a little from stock. The Cat converter gets clogged and depending on where you live many people replace or remove. If no CAT you could upgrade the muffler or put a bottle resonator in line to dull the sound down. Check the status of your CAT.
Careful, you don't want to influence the exhaust note too much as many of us enjoy the sound of a well tuned spider. As far as cabin noise, well, you will have road noise even if you insulate the floor and trans tunnel. Top up or top down the car will be loud. You can track down the rattles and eliminate them one by one and a well sorted car should not have a lot of things rattling, still, it will be loud at highway speed. Unless you have the best convertible top install I've seen to date, wash car by hand and not in drive through car wash as water will come in gaps. The car has drain holes as part of the design but I don't like getting too much water in. You own a cool little car that will give you a smile for years to come.

I may have an issue with my transmission then. The PO did rebuild it but when I texted him about the issue yesterday he said he rarely used first gear.

I need to get under the car and check out if it has a CatConverter. Yesterday I noticed it had some oil leakage from the Filter (I tightened that a little) and the oil plug (I will look at that more later). I put about 1/5th of a quart to top it off.

Are used Catalytic Converters a thing? I have a good contact for used parts, he sent me a Rearview Mirror, Visors with hardware, vent window latches and Windshield fluid bag/pump/nozzels for less than $100. So I could ask him for a used converter if he has one... Though I do believe they lose effectiveness over the years?

[nvillacci]

1. First gear seems to have a very short working area - in fact if I push first too hard it slips back into neutral. Is this normal on these older cars?

Nick, no it is not normal, but I'm not sure what you mean by pushing too hard. Do you mean giving the engine gas and revving it, or pushing on the shift lever? In either case, the transmission should not pop out of first gear. If it does, we'll have to help you figure out why.

-Bryan

Hi Bryan,

I need to get under the car and look... this weeks projects are refinishing visors, mirros, latches and buying the fluids...

As far as pushing hard, I mean revving the motor in First gear. It only pops back into neutral in that gear. I was looking for the best fluid to do a change for the Transmission and looking for 50W Valvoline Racing oil but couldnt find it yesterday at Autozone. I did pick up Valvoline Conventional Racing Oil for the oil changes though.

[nvillacci]

Welcome to the group. I’m in Dallas with a ‘78 too. Did you take it to Robert at Shadetree? If so he is amazing. If not, that’s who you need to consider going to.

Just got mine back from my yearly check with him and it’s running simply amazing. Originally mine popped out of second and I went ahead and replaced the transmission. Not sure if there’s some tweaks or service you can do, but definitely not normal. I’ve worked through the squeaks and now have a solid and non squeaking car as well as a completely redone interior. Great thing about DFW is we have great resources locally with Autoricambi (my preferred local) and Vicks both here. Plus a lot of other vendors with great knowledge and parts available online.

Hey Bender,

I am pretty close to Autoricambi, in fact I bought the car from one of the employees there. I havent looks at Vicks yet. Shadetree is miles away from me since Im by Fort Worth... one of the reasons I stayed away from the Alfa Romeo I was thinking about buying.

We should connect the next time you are in the area by Autoricambi. I would love to see your car and compare notes.

As far as the transmission goes, I would probably consider reworking it if anything. It was rebuilt a year ago...

The interior is a project I will look at soon. I just ordered a bulk box of Hushmat.

Nick

[TheBender]

I live 3-5 miles or so from AR. It’s worth every effort to go to Shadetree. If needed/wanted he picks up on Mondays for $120. Worth every penny to me. He is extremely fair on prices and his work is top notch. I’m not mechanically inclined so he adds a lot of value for me. This time part of what he took care of for me was some rattles which ended up being the rear brake compensator link rod bushing (I have no idea but that’s what he called it). And now no more rattle for me.

I put down some mat too. I was targeting the heat transfer but does quiet things down and also made the car feel (maybe just in my head) even more solid.

Yeah I’m around and would be fun to compare items and notes. I don’t go to the Fiat club meeting since they are on the weekends and I work weekends.

Here’s mine before and after.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

As far as pushing hard, I mean revving the motor in First gear. It only pops back into neutral in that gear. I was looking for the best fluid to do a change for the Transmission and looking for 50W Valvoline Racing oil but couldnt find it yesterday at Autozone. I did pick up Valvoline Conventional Racing Oil for the oil changes though.

Thanks for that info, Nick. A couple thoughts. One is that a transmission will pop out of gear for really only two reasons, and those reasons are that it never fully engaged with the gear in the first place (no pun intended), or the torque on the transmission causes motion of internal parts or the shift lever so that the selector rod moves back out of gear. Before tearing down the transmission for another rebuild, make sure it's not something really simply like your vinyl or leather shift boot (and the rubber seal beneath it) is twisted or buckled or the like so that it prevents you from putting the transmission all the way into first gear.

I promised you a couple thoughts, so here's #2. Older Fiat transmissions work best on GL-1 transmission oil, which is a mineral oil-base and isn't commonly available anymore. Napa auto stores do carry it (at least where I am), and you can order it online. I've also heard Ford tractor oil is a common substitute. Ask 5 people what the best oil is for a Fiat tranny, and you'll get 10 different answers, but I've always tried to use what was originally recommended. And speaking of oil, for engine oil I suggest just plain ol' 10W-40. If you spend your time in your Fiat between 6000 and 8000 rpm, then racing oil would be needed, but for everyday driving, go with Fiat's recommendation which was 10W-30 or 10W-40 depending on climate.

Good luck with it!

-Bryan

[nvillacci]

As far as pushing hard, I mean revving the motor in First gear. It only pops back into neutral in that gear. I was looking for the best fluid to do a change for the Transmission and looking for 50W Valvoline Racing oil but couldnt find it yesterday at Autozone. I did pick up Valvoline Conventional Racing Oil for the oil changes though.

Thanks for that info, Nick. A couple thoughts. One is that a transmission will pop out of gear for really only two reasons, and those reasons are that it never fully engaged with the gear in the first place (no pun intended), or the torque on the transmission causes motion of internal parts or the shift lever so that the selector rod moves back out of gear. Before tearing down the transmission for another rebuild, make sure it's not something really simply like your vinyl or leather shift boot (and the rubber seal beneath it) is twisted or buckled or the like so that it prevents you from putting the transmission all the way into first gear.

I promised you a couple thoughts, so here's #2. Older Fiat transmissions work best on GL-1 transmission oil, which is a mineral oil-base and isn't commonly available anymore. Napa auto stores do carry it (at least where I am), and you can order it online. I've also heard Ford tractor oil is a common substitute. Ask 5 people what the best oil is for a Fiat tranny, and you'll get 10 different answers, but I've always tried to use what was originally recommended. And speaking of oil, for engine oil I suggest just plain ol' 10W-40. If you spend your time in your Fiat between 6000 and 8000 rpm, then racing oil would be needed, but for everyday driving, go with Fiat's recommendation which was 10W-30 or 10W-40 depending on climate.

Good luck with it!

-Bryan

Hey Bryan,

Yesterday I topped the oil off with Shell Rotella T4 15W-40. It was a bit low from a slow leak I saw on the oil filter and oil plug. I hope that tightning the filter remedied that leak last night.

I did buy 5 quarts of Valvoline 20W-50 since I am in Texas and it gets hot here. That will go in when I change the oil in 3-4 months. (I drive less than 200 miles a month in the car right now).

The PO said he did put in GL-1 into the transmission...

I was looking for Valvoline 50W racing oil for the transmission after reading this board. I can just go GL-1 as well though I was debating on the Redline MT-90 75W-90 GL-4 as well?

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I've heard of people putting other types of oil in their Fiat transmissions, and some have had good results. Here's the story as I recall it. GL-1, GL-2, and GL-3 used to be pretty widely used and available, but the cars that used these oils are few and far between these days. Modern cars typically use GL-4 and GL-5, and these contain sulfur additives used to provide more EP (extreme protection) for the designs used in modern transmissions. The problem is that these sulfur additives are corrosive to the brass synchronizer rings used in Fiat transmissions. GL-5 has much more sulfur additives than GL-4, so I definitely wouldn't use GL-5. I've heard some people have used GL-4 without any problems but then again, Fiats typically don't get driven 15,000 miles per year.

Since GL-1 was specified by the manufacturer for your car, use that if you can find some. If you can't, GL-4 might be OK, and Redline makes some pretty good products. I don't have any personal experience with these, though.

Also, leaks on top of the oil filter can be from one of the two oil sensors units, either the low oil pressure light switch or the pressure sending unit. Leaks from those are fairly common.

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

NAPA GL-1, in stock at my local outlet, in gallons.