Engine won't idle - What else to try?

[mdrburchette]

Probably not what I suggested anyway. Didn't know there was a fuel pump swap. It seems strange that it keeps getting worse. Is the distributor locked down? Maybe that bolt is loose and the dist is moving. I'd also check the rotor to make sure the metal strip isn't flopping around. I just found a problem like this with my 71 (electronic ign conversion).

[bobcity]

Probably not what I suggested anyway. Didn't know there was a fuel pump swap. It seems strange that it keeps getting worse. Is the distributor locked down? Maybe that bolt is loose and the dist is moving. I'd also check the rotor to make sure the metal strip isn't flopping around. I just found a problem like this with my 71 (electronic ign conversion).

Haven't tested the wires for strong spark yet. Have to rig up a ground wire so I can see the plug while cranking the engine.

The bolt may have been loose! I was working on the nut and found that the distributor would turn. So I played with it and got the best running with it turned as far counterclockwise as possible.

So then I could actually kept it running by feathering the gas lightly. Finally got it above 2500 where it sounds to me like it should.

At the slightest provocation it wants to backfire through the carb and die though.

Final straw for today. While trying to warm it up, all of a sudden I see smoke starting to billow out of every where. Looking under car reveals the reddest catalytic converter I could ever imagine, wow. I've got it parked on an old carpet pad which was doing it's best to start a fire.

Any of this sound significant?
Bob

[Tappy]

I believe that your timing is not correct , you might want to borrow a timing light and a dwell meter , fact that your backfiring trough the carb and probably the exhoust also is why i think your ignition is not set correctly

but then again i'm not an expert , what no , i'm really not even a beginner , wth, dont listen at al, i messed up al my engines so far ...

So pls some expert jump in and tell me that i'm on a good track here , then @ least i've learned something

[So Cal Mark]

a glowing cat indicates tons of unburned fuel going into it. The cat will fail pretty rapidly in that condition. Your hit and miss diagnosis is not the recommended way to approach this repair. You really need to systematically check the basics and find the source of your misfire/poor running

[ronarthur]

Is it possible that the cat may also be blocked? If so, is it possible that it is affecting how it is running? A friend of mine had a Mazda with a blocked cat and it wouldn't even start.

[Jim DeShon]

If it was not out of time when you started, it is now ! If you can turn the dist. around you need to start from the BEGINNING !...J.D.

[bobcity]

If it was not out of time when you started, it is now ! If you can turn the dist. around you need to start from the BEGINNING !...J.D.

The point of turning the dist. from stop to stop, was because I was trying to keep it running long enough to get a timing light on it. So I was just trying to get it close. Is there some other way I should be checking the timing?

Sorry, if I have I mentioned (and it isn't obvious) that I don't really know what I'm doing. I've had the car for only a few months and am new to this whole subject. My main guide has been here and the shop manual. If I knew where the "beginning" was or what "systematic approach" to take I'm sure I'd start there. This all started from just trying to improve an idle issue. A can of carb. cleaner and a month later I'm here. If I'd known a mechanic that could work on this, the car would be there now, for sure. So bear with me.

Current status:
It's obviously getting fuel (tons of unburned fuel in cat.).
Compression is adequate.
Spark is strong, off each wire.
Plugs are new.
The Timing is off?

Car now starts cold and idles on fast idle cam, with choke closed, as long as I stay away from throttle, which will make it backfire. Cat started glowing red again right away, after a couple of minutes. So still haven't been able to put timing light on it.

Please keep the suggestions coming and thanks for all the help.
Bob

[racydave]

Kinda the chicken or the egg... A foul runnin engine can ruin a cataletic converter. A bad converter will make an engine run foul. You may need to remove the converter to get it runnin, or if Fuel inj, remove the oxygen sensor to eliminate the supposed restriction.

[bobcity]

Finally!
I found a problem. Here goes. Way back, when I took off the original carb there was a short vacuum line going about an inch from the power valve connector to the crankcase blow by connector on the carb (both on carb). When I said I re-plumbed everything according to the manual I took this obviously non-functional tubing off and reconnected as described in manual to the power valve.

Later, I noticed it was leaking fuel and thought OK bad diaphragm gasket. I took the diaphragm gasket off my rebuilt carb. and put it on original.

Then forgot about it. So why is all this fuel ending up it the cat as Mark pointed out? Looked at it again today and saw little fuel coming out of connector again. Light bulb over head goes on. I plugged the connector. Now I won't say everything is perfect but was able (after warming up) to turn down the idle to 1000 or 900. I could then put timing light on and check timing. Pretty close to what I had guessed, turn dist. a little more now it's at 10 degree mark.
Drove car around the block. Very happy.
Hope It will run when cold. It still has carb problems, I think, since power valve connector shouldn't leak. And exploring rebuilt card I found the strainer was but in backwards so that might have been why it didn't work.

More later, thanks
Bob

[mdrburchette]

It's great you are on the path to fixing your problem. This reminds me of what my husband always says when something goes wrong with one of my Fiats...retrace your steps and figure out what you did.

[bobcity]

Thought I'd add an update to my saga so far.
Replaced the accelerator pump diaphragm.
New plugs.
Checked pickup module.
I've removed the dist. and replaced the vacuum advance which was broken.
I've timed the engine to be dead on 10 degrees.
Gotten the mixture set to optimal.
plugged any vacuum leaks I could find.
Plugged and disabled the fitting from the leaking power valve.

engine fast idles way too high until warm.

When driving it's got a flat spot whenever I accelerate, but passed that spot it accelerates great.

This flat spot was not their before.

Any thoughts on what could be causing the flat spot?

[TulsaSpider]

Wow you are getting there!! Sometimes it's just a matter of re examining things. Is your dizzy points? Dual points? If so convert them to single points, get a new cap, rotor, points, and condenser that made a noticeable difference on mine and all for about 25$ Depending on where you are located I would ditch all emissions stuff including the cat since you may have damaged it anyway.
Good luck!

[bobcity]

Wow you are getting there!! Sometimes it's just a matter of re examining things. Is your dizzy points? Dual points? If so convert them to single points, get a new cap, rotor, points, and condenser that made a noticeable difference on mine and all for about 25$ Depending on where you are located I would ditch all emissions stuff including the cat since you may have damaged it anyway.
Good luck!

I've got the electronic ... but I agree I should get new cap and rotor at this point.

I would like to ditch but California frowns on it.

Thanks

[majicwrench]

Not sure what fitting you have plugged from the leaking power valve, but you need the "power valve" to get good acceleration and power. If the power valve aint right, it will not run right.
Then again, this is a little bitty motor, it is never going to light the tires on acceleration.
Good luck,
Keith

[bobcity]

Not sure what fitting you have plugged from the leaking power valve, but you need the "power valve" to get good acceleration and power. If the power valve aint right, it will not run right.
Then again, this is a little bitty motor, it is never going to light the tires on acceleration.
Good luck,
Keith

Thanks for responding ... from the looks of it not too many people have this on their carb.

There is only one fitting on the power valve located on the ADHA carb and it's for vacuum. So I have to plug it in both directions. One to stop vacuum from leaking and the other to stop the fuel from leaking. The line is shown in the manual going to the vacuum thermovalve on the vacuum collector (actually there is supposed to be a delay device between them too.

The problem is that I'm getting fuel leaking out of it.