Blown head gasket?

[TulsaSpider]

Ok well I can't be in denial any more. Starting about the past 3 or 4 weeks or so I have noticed a bit of the dreaded milky stuff on the dipstick. I said naaah it can't be!!! I have no symtoms of a blown head gasket.... I checked on Tuesday and there was some, Well today before I got in the car I checked the dipstick and there was more, and I could actually see a couple of water droplets that had condensed... it had been showing up only about every week so now it seems to have worsened or simply accumulated over time. So I can't deny it anymore I have water in the oil... It seems to be a slow seep. I have no symptoms, it hasn't overheated,in fact the opposite.. no oil in the coolant, no measurable coolant loss, no water in the exaust etc... It's running very good actually!
So I found a FelPro gasket set that will be here tomorrow. I haven't done this to a Fiat before. I do have a book, but nothing beats a little advise from those who have actually done it! It looks pretty straight forward... A couple of questions. Will the valves have to be adjusted afterwards? What should I use on those exhaust studs to seal them? What size tap should I find to clean the head bolt holes?
Please hit me with any advise you have! This is not good timing, well it's never good.... It's been years since I did this level of wrenching..
UGH!
Thanks for any help!

Update
I just went down and changed my oil and filter BRRRRRRR!. The oil was black, it didn't look too bad, but it was a bit milky...

[racydave]

I havnt done mine yet, but assisted Mike with his head swap. Any engine with this age should probably get new gaskets, esp if you cruize out of town. However, in the colder weather its not uncommon to have some condensation. A posative crankcase ventilation system requires total seal, and good flow, otherwise the condensation remains. Its also important to run engine past warmup. I used locktite in the ex-manifold studs. Go ahead, do it! Youll feel better!

[lanciahf]

Somethings to check.

Pressurize the coolant system and see if it holds about 14lbs of pressure. While the coolant system is pressurized open the oil cap on the valve cover and check for a hissing sound.


Since you have water in the oil I doubt you have the symptoms below but check anyway.
Does you car over heat?
While the car is running is there any white smoke coming out of the exhaust or bubbles in the coolant overflow tank?

If it is the head gasket don't forget to replace the cam seals in the cam towers, they get hard after a while.

Good Luck,
Ralph

[TulsaSpider]

Ralph,
I don't have a way to pressurize the system other than normal operation. I have a 14lb cap on the radiator and it holds pressure just fine. I'll check for any sounds, although I'll have to be careful about getting a face full of oil! I need to check for bubbles in the recovery tank I haven't done that yet, no white smoke. Might those seals be in this kit? if not then I doubt my local parts store has them? http://www.oreillyauto.com/EW3/external ... Viewer.jsp.
Thanks!!

[lanciahf]

Not sure if the seals will be in there. But checking Parts America web site looks like they are included. Anyone else order a Felpro gasket kit?
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDeta ... =HS21201B1

[manoa matt]

I've heard good things about the Fel-pro head gasket on Mirafiori. Its better than the Tako gasket that is typicaly sold. I would like to know how the Fel-Pro compares to the Goetez, which is supposed to be great gasket. Vicks sells a no re-torque performance gasket.

I also read in Croft's book that there is a cam box to cylinder head gasket that is better than the stock ones that are prone to leaking oil near the rears. Apparently the new gasket has a silicone bead running along the gasket surface on both sides, like the newer Fel-Pro gaskets for more modern cars.

[rlux4]

Clark, whatever you do, don't go up to Grant's Pass, Oregon and find the mobile mechanic there to help you! You may remember, I thought my head gasket may have blown on the way to Oregon 08 (turns out it hadn't) and the guy who I found to do the job blew it. I didn't have the right tools with me on the trip, so I was between a rock and a hard spot. I wish i'd have been in the position to do it myself, it wasn't difficult at all. Don't turn the cam pulleys during the job, it will make it easier to time when you put it back together. I ended up having to redo all the timing, he had it so it would run, but had no power. I don't know off hand the head bolt size for you, sorry.
BTW, the other day, when you had the radiator cap off while it was running, did you notice if you were getting batches of burping bubbles up out of your radiator? You'd get that if you have a break in the gasket between a cylinder and a water jacket.
Good luck,
Ron

[So Cal Mark]

Clark, if you have an air compressor you can pressurize each cylinder and look for bubbles in the radiator. Small head gasket leaks are hard to pinpoint with just a radiator pressure tester.
As for the repair, it all depends if you are going to try and get by with just replacing the head gasket or if you plan to do a head rebuild. If you are hoping to get lucky and just replace the head gasket you only have to unbolt the exhaust flange, undo the timing belt, disconnect wiring and hoses and remove the head bolts. Be sure to clean the head surface and check it for flatness

[TulsaSpider]

Ron that sounds like a lousy situation, I'll avoid the area for now! What was the problem at the time?
I didn't/haven't noticed any bubbling when I had the cap off. I'll check that more tomorrow. I plan to put it at TDC so timing it will be easier. I just changed the belt so that procedure is still fairly fresh in my mind..

Mark I am just gonna do a basic repair for now. I am just hoping it's the gasket and not something else.
I mean what else could it be with my symptoms? If I didn't know better I would think the block had frozen or something. Gas in the oil wouldn't turn it milky right? It has to be coolant...
I don't have a compressor, or a garage for that matter... divorce.... but there is one at work. I doubt that it has as much pressure as the pistons generate though, or about equal... Even if I can't get any bubbles to come out, I really don't have any options other than opening it up and replacing the head gasket.
Do you know what size tap to get?
How can I clean the pasty gunk outta my motor?

[So Cal Mark]

one telltale symptom is a misfire when started cold. The cyl with the moisture will misfire until the water burns off the spark plug. The symptoms that others have described would be for a major gasket failure. As for a minor repair, if the head is warped more than .002 you can expect the new gasket to fail. If you don't check the head for flatness, expect the repair to be temporary.
Getting the gunk out of the motor is difficult. You can try using some solvent or motor flush but plan on doing a couple of oil changes after the repair. One problem is that coolant will wash oil off of moving parts, so you stand a chance of doing some damage to the cams or lower end running that diluted gunk

[TulsaSpider]

No missfiring! It is running better than it ever has! Well if I can find transportation I can take it to a machine shop to check it for flatness.

[TulsaSpider]

Ok well I got the gasket set today. I picked up some thread sealant in a small tube. I hope this fixes my oil leak at the exhaust studs, well that and a new head gasket should do it I hope! I picked up another filter and oil again. Dropped $100. I pray this will take care of it. The best news is that it will be warming up tomorrow and Sat. I found a buddy who will help me and he has a garage!! I never got a reply about the tap size so I couldn't try to find one.
I'll start it in the morning wish me luck!!
I am sure I'll be in touch!
Clark

[rlux4]

Good luck Clark! Here's hoping you find everything is OK when you get into it.
You may not have been on the forum yet back in June. There is an annual campout up in Oregon with Fiat enthusiasts, and my mother was staying with us about then, so I thought I'd take her back home (Washington state) in the Fiat. On the 2nd day of driving, the car was boiling coolant out of the overflow bottle and overheating. I nusrsed it up to the campout thinking that with all those Fiat people someone should be able to diagnose the problem. I thought blown head gasket. I bought the set and figured I'd nurse it for the last 350 mile leg from the campout to Mom's place. We got as far as Grant's Pass when it got so bad I could only do about 10 miles between stops to cool off and fill up the coolant. This was a Sunday. I got ahold of a mobile mechanic locally who said he could handle it. It took him two days and he put it together with the cams and distributor timing way off, so I towed it home. It was still boiling over out the overflow, and I knew the head and head gasket were good, so I looked for another source for the problem. Turns out it was the little gasket on the heater tube that connects to the suction side of the water pump. So, when the car was running, it would suck air into the system. A 2" gasket and 10 minutes of work was all it was! The fiasco cost me about $1500 with hotels bills and all. The bad part is: a couple of people had suggested that I may be sucking air in somewhere (Mark was one) and I didn't see where it could be, because the leak wasn't so bad that it would drip when it was sitting.
Live and learn.
Ron

[TulsaSpider]

Wow Ron that was a fubar eh? Jeesh I am sorry to hear of it, but I will remember it if I ever have a overheating problem!

[baltobernie]

Good luck with the top-end, Clark.

Don't forget there are usually one or two removable .5" long hollow locating pins on the block/cylinder head. When removing the head, don't lose them! (particularly down an oil or coolant galley).