have you been noticing?

[Gunsmith]

That is the funny part about this thread; we are all here for our obsession with an obsolete outdated unreliable imported automobile that we just love.

[wengr]

Soon, so many Americans will be dependent on government handouts that it will bring about a shift in the perception of social policy. By that, I mean that people will be trained to be dependent instead of independent, and complacent instead of ambitious.

Sadly, Where I come from, this happened many years ago.

[spiderrey]

obsolite and unreliable arent the two words i would use to describe my fiats. you guys are all crying about unions, as if getting rid of them would solve all your problems. thats just a wet dream. i would agree some adjustments need to be made and are long over due.
tenure has to count for something, but it has to figure in with performance.there are to many people that have put in thier time and know they cant be fired with out an act of congress. these people need a swift kick in azz. if there were no unions, we would all be living in poverty.

[wengr]

obsolite and unreliable arent the two words i would use to describe my fiats. you guys are all crying about unions, as if getting rid of them would solve all your problems. ... if there were no unions, we would all be living in poverty.

C'mon, be serious. Why can't we discuss unions without incredible exaggeration?

[spiderrey]

go ahead, explain yourself. im open minded.

[racydave]

US history 101. Just watch the classic movie Grapes of Wrath. It reminds me of some famous Americans, like J P Morgan, Rockerfeller, Henry Ford,... How many people were killed in Detroit? How many people were crushed in mines? And Im not a pro-union person either. Just need a balance for everyone. Alot of us had the fortune of growing up during the best times this country ever had. If you asked a veteran of the Great Depression, they would say that we do not have it bad at all. Things are going to change.

[wengr]

go ahead, explain yourself. im open minded.

Hello Rey, For example I'm self employed. No option for collective bargaining. No one to bargain with but myself. I don't live in poverty. My wife on the other hand works for a company. She has for many years repeatedly elected not to join a union. She repeatedly votes against forced unionization. She is not management. Again we do not live in poverty. Parts of the country where unions are much less common, are no more poverty prone than anywhere else. The role and effect of unionization has been discussed in a number of threads here. And what I see are alot of posts with facts and figures, expressed more eloquently than I ever could, analyzing the effect of unions in our economy, verses exaggeratory posts claiming poverty and minimum wage etc., seemingly fueled by emotion.

[narfire]

Hey, my sawmill (woodmizer) is built in the states as are all my hand tools (craftsman)(some 35 years old). All are well built and worth every penny I have spent. No idea though if they were made by union or non union people. Regardless, they work great with a great warranty.

[wengr]

[/quote] I feel that the big three management has repeatedly failed in their responsibilty to innovate and try and grow the business thru better engineering. they chose instead to focus on cost down engineering and marketing gimmicks that insult our intelligence. [/quote]self quote for perpsective. My wife continues to terrorize me with this painful crap called american idol. As you may know every week there is an integrated ford commercial. A custom produced commercial, integrated into the format, requiring participation of the stars, of one of the most popular prime time shows in television. I wonder what that costs? And I wonder what it nets, as I don't know too many young people aspiring to own a new ford.

[spiderrey]

you know, there are a couple of new fords that i wouldnt mind owening right now. there are some chevys too, but id rather have a ford.

[wengr]

you know, there are a couple of new fords that i wouldnt mind owening right now. there are some chevys too, but id rather have a ford.

yeah I find the styling of some fords decent since they hired away, iirc that guy from Audi. also I had an 04 a while back with the 2.3 that they share with mazda. don't know if it's mazda or ford made or joint but I found it had good power and a nice feel. for grocery getters, I still don't think they match the japanese in any way, but some of them are much improved.

[spiderrey]

you know,your so anti american product it seems. a japanese car dosent always compare to an american car, in my opinion. for example, mazda rx7 , purely japanese. if you like the car its because of the car. its not where its made. the mustang pure american design, if thats your kind of car its because thats what you like, its not because its american made. everyone has always praised the jap cars as better, and in some ways im sure they are, but that dosent mean everything american is junk, or just good as a grocery getter.there is some good stuff out there. i actually bought two toyotas over a period of time, both were nothing but trouble. ive owewed at least 11 new cars that i can recall, 5 fords, 1 chevy, mazda, vw, toyota and honda. the mazda and honda were great, the toyota junk, the fords i miss, they were good trucks. i know im all over the place , but oh well. there are good american cars and trucks out there, then there are some that i wouldnt be caught dead in, the same goes for foreign cars. by the way, that 2.3 engine isnt mazdas. it goes way back with ford. they use it in everything, its a stout motor. had it in a ranger. it came in pintos. the first thing that i know it was in was the capri, originally a european ford.
fords i like today, the edge, ranger, f150, mustang,flex,

[So Cal Mark]

Here is what I've noticed, not just from this forum but from the general public I come in contact with;
we should hate anything produced in another country (unless it's something we own as an individual)
we should hate workers in any other country, they either undercut our wages or they produce crap products
we should hate any union workers; they are all lazy, overcompensated and have ruined the company they work(ed) for
we should hate any US company that has outsourced or imports foreign products. ( if the workers for this company were union, which one do we hate more?)
we should hate teachers; they're overpaid and don't teach our kids anything (and they belong to a union)
we should hate our government; they waste our tax dollars helping poor underpriveleged people
we should hate retired people; they are bankrupting their former employees

we should praise the rich CEO's even if the company they head has tanked and they still got a bonus. This is the entreprenurial spirit that made this country great.
we should praise any politician that wants to end social programs; those US citizens don't deserve any help (they were probably union workers and deserve what they get)
we should let all of the potential foreclosures occur; a couple of million homeless people will be a good example for someone considering purchasing a home beyond their means.
we should let the Big 3 go bankrupt (even though they approached congress asking for help); after all, they let the unions in and we have agreed that was what has ruined America.

now that I've got it all figured out, I'm crawling back into my little corner of the world trying to keep Fiats on the road

[JimM]

"Here is what I've noticed, not just from this forum but from the general public I come in contact with"

Gee Mark, I think you forgot about the Bankers who were dumb enough to issue all those loans that are being foreclosed, or the Investment Brokers who lost everybody's retirement money. How about the "poor" farmers who go south every winter to get away from the cold and can do this because the government pays them to plow crops under or just not to grow them. We all have our own gripes and pet peeves, but this is still the best place in the world to live and I personally would not trade it for anywhere else even though I feel that our Government is leading us down that old proverbial path. Just remember that it has been "We the People" who have voted for the changes, etc that have gotten us to this point. We can change it back, but it will take time and effort on everyone's part. Until then, may our slightly outdated foreign vehicles always start, run great, and bring us the enjoyment we got them for.

[Kevin1]

. . . Just remember that it has been "We the People" who have voted for the changes, etc that have gotten us to this point. We can change it back, but it will take time and effort on everyone's part. . .

Jim, by "voting for the changes" you must mean in 2000 and 2004, right? After all, it would be unrealistic to suggest that the problems being discussed developed since January 21, 2009.

Disclaimer: I am intentionally opening a can of worms here.