Need info./ filler, primer

[azygoustoyou]

I'm ready to do body work. I need to know what brand of filler to use. There are so many out there. I want to get something good that will be easy to work with and sand easy. What have you guys used and thought it was great stuff?
Is there any certain type of primer you would suggest? I found this site which explains the differences of all the factors. But it doesn't say what brands to use.
http://www.roadsters.com/filler/

[pope]

Here is what I am doing.
Get body to bare metal and spray 2-coats of epoxy primer, apply body filler and seam sealer. Respray Epoxy where you have sanded to metal. Spray high build primer and sand till you arms fall off. Spray a sealer (could use epoxy primer) then base coat then clear.

I use Southern Polyurethane for Epoxy Primer
Evercoat Rage is a very good body filler
Southern Polyurethane has a great hi build primer
Sealer, base and clear should be from the same manufacture of your choice

[azygoustoyou]

Hey Pope.
Did you look at this post? http://www.roadsters.com/filler/
Here is what he says.
" It will cost a lot less to follow these steps to correctly prepare the metal and work within the correct temperature range and hardener amounts than to even bother with epoxy primer as an underlayer."
What do you think?

[pope]

Here is my thought. If you can work on a car in a closed environment such as a large shop, and your going to finish the car in a short time because you have enough guys working on it, thats one thing. But we work on it in a garage over a long period of time and fluctuating temps. I like to see the metal sealed as soon as possible. Epoxy is a very hard 2-part paint and it seals the metal from absorbing moisture and causing rust, and suffocates the rust under it. Filler attaches to it just great.

Every body man has his own way of doing things though.

[racydave]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wwwfiatspi ... 052916388/ We also used a finely chopped fiberglass filler dynaglass

[mdrburchette]

I agree with Pope. Use a good epoxy primer to seal any bare metal, then do the bodywork over it. Be ready to spend a chunk of change on paint and body materials. This stuff is expensive!

[engineerted]

Yes, Epoxy primer. The life of you paint depends on how well you prepped your metal. There are a few good web sites that are for the DYI car restorers like us. I will have to look in my notes at home. FYI, fiber glass filler is for fiber glass or those who think filling holes with filler is the proper way to repair rust, NOT. Body filler should only be used to fill imperfections up to 1/16" any greater than that, get the dolly and hammer out.


Ted

[azygoustoyou]

Thanks Pope and everyone else. Just wanted to make sure the route I should take. I'll look into getting the Southern epoxy primer and Rage products.

[azygoustoyou]

Pope, I was looking into getting southern Poly epoxy primer for the car and found this spec sheet on it.
http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/te ... 202006.pdf
Look at the Precautions. It says never to use this stuff on soda blasted metal. My question is, do you know why they are saying that? I was planning on media blasting the car. Is there a difference between media blast and soda blast?
Also I found a site that sells the SP epoxy primer for $30 a quart. Is there anywhere else you know of that is cheaper? How much product will I need to do the car?
Sorry so many questions!

[pope]

Media blasting is just that, media. What kind they use will vary from place to place. Plastic is the kind that does the least damage to the metal, but there is glass bead, slag (black diamond), garnet, and on and on.

Soda blasting is different in that it leaves a residue of soda on the metal. Its just baking soda that is course ground. Problem is that stuff gets into the nooks and crannies and is very hard to get out. It also absorbs moisture just like the stuff in your fridge. Caught between two pinch welds and instant rust magnet. But I guess it has its place because it is gentle on the metal surface.

http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/Pricing%20Info.htm

Epoxy primer is a 1:1 mix with activator.
You have to buy the epoxy and then the activator which doubles the price. But you get twice the sprayable amount. One qt is equal to 2 qts sprayable. This is not cheap stuff.
I paid $150 for 2 sprayable gallons delivered.
If you are doing the whole car, inside, bottom, exterior panels, and spray two coats, then your gonna need two sprayable gallons.

I have always heard to figure 7oz. of spray per panel per coat on average size car, but ours is a little smaller.
A Spider has 8 panels plus the two undersides of trunk and hood. 10 x 7oz equals 70oz. of mixed paint per coat. Two coats is 140oz. (basically a gallon). Now you have the underside, wheel wells, interior, engine compartment and inside trunk area.
Like I said, we have small cars so 2 gal. should do it.

Im not pushing Southern poly, you can use what you want, its just that I think Epoxy is a good bet.

One of my favorite sites for this stuff is
Hotrodders.com

[azygoustoyou]

Thanks Pope,
I was going to use POR 15 on the under carriage and inside on the floor to seal it. I was told I couldn't paint on top of POR 15. I will be painting inside the eng and trunk areas plus the doors. What are you using to clean the panels before paint?

[racydave]

FYI, fiber glass filler is for fiber glass or those who think filling holes with filler is the proper way to repair rust, NOT. Body filler should only be used to fill imperfections up to 1/16" any greater than that, get the dolly and hammer out.

I beg to disagree if I may. Of course I might be sensative to this since I just finished a half year doin my bodywork, and all metal was re-formed, and the filler at a minimum. It was used on metal replacment areas such as the caps for the rear wheel openings http://www.flickr.com/photos/wwwfiatspi ... 033755970/ It is moisture resistant where as fillers may not be. If you ask ten professionals an opinion, you will always get ten answers. Thats my opinion... Ted, Ill be in Grand Rapids for the big show this summer.

[azygoustoyou]

Hey Dave,
as I was looking at your pic's, my wife implied our garage looks like yours. I then looked closer and realized she was right. LOL

[racydave]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wwwfiatspi ... 033755970/ That was my friends garage, mine is much worse!

[htchevyii]

I use the same procedure as Pope, epoxy primer -filler primer/plastic filler-epoxy primer, (I do remove the epoxy if apply more than a skim coat of filler). I also apply the seam sealer after the epoxy primer, so if it cracks the metal is still protected, as Pope recommended. If I have to repair a panel with thicker filler than I want, I use the fiberglass first as Racy Dave does, it's much stronger, (it's not always practical to replace a panel, even if you have to use thicker filler than recommended). I do, of course get the panel as straight as possible, but I'm not going to replace a quarter panel just because it needs a bit of extra filler in a spot. I use the final coat of epoxy as the sealer (wetsanded w/400 grit) and do not apply a sealer over it. This way I am not painting over any dirt or roughness in the sealer coat. PPG or DuPont are top of the line, but I've heard the Southern Poly is good stuff for less $. I used PPG"s economy Omni AU line and it seemed to work fine, (my Nova has been wearing it for 10 years now). If you have the sealer tinted the paint will cover better. I wouldn't recommend my paint booth, on the side the paint was drying too fast and the other side wanted to run. It took sanding & buffing to fix. If you are using a metallic, definitely go with a base clear, if it's a solid color you could get away with single stage, (single stage metallic can't be sanded/buffed to fix imperfections). As far as paint guns go, a cheap one can spray as well as a good one, but won't last as long. My local paint store will allow you to spray thinner thru them to check the spray pattern, before you buy. Take your time and adjust it to adjust the gun and practice before painting.