newbie to the forum... with some elec. issues

[restonko]

hey everyone

Im from Vancouver, BC, Canada and im new to this forum.
My Fiat is a 1979 Spider 2000 Carb.

To start off, about a year ago, I was replacing my battery at night, and connected it in reverse, somehow the black and green battery leads confused me, dont have an excuse for that. Ignition was off, but didnt notice until smoking from under the dash, and in the distributor i think. So blew some fuses and not sure what kinda other damage that has done.
Currently, i replaced the blown fuses. The starter motor turns but i believe there is no spark. There is 12V to the coil but nothing after that. So at first, i though the coil was faulty. As of now, replaced everything in the ignition system after the coil other than the distributor (new coil, wires, spark plugs). Thinking that would have solved the problem. But still same story, cranks fine, but no spark after coil. Fuel should be fine. Smells like gas after some cranking.

So right now, I guess there is something faulty in the distributor. Most probably the magnetic pickup not giving the signal to the coil when to give the spark since i got 12V to coil. Or maybe even just buy a rebuilt one. Just seeking some advice on what might my problem will be and what i will need to replace.
Im a uni student at uvic, just finish exams, and have a month before school starts again to work on my spider.
hope you guys can give me some advice! thanks!

[narfire]

Smoking in the dist.? Have you taken the cap and rotor off and had a look at the pick-up. The two wires going into the pick-up are very fragile and will become brittle with time. They have a tendancy to break where they go into the pick-up. If thats the case, goto Lordco and they will have one overnight. Set the gap,tighten all the screws and put it all back together. If you are still having issues,and if you can,I'd recomend a trip to Clemente's on Kingsway (1600 block south side) Geo has helped me alot on my 80.
Nice car to have in Victoria,Launie in Sooke is very knowlageable as well.

[restonko]

thx narfire... i actually live in Richmond, thats where my fiat is, i just go to Vic for school, my daily ride there is a 91 Firebird ... i've been to Clemente once to take a look, never had my car serviced there before. Recently been buying parts online from Vicks or IAP. Maybe lordco will have some common parts for the spider, but never asked. Got parts from Italian Motors before, but seem like they into go karts more now.

i dont have much experience with cars yet, but i'll take a look at those 2 wires and give it a go. I guess i'll be taking the whole distributor out to take a look. So first step i guess is to set the engine to TDC, take out the dist, mark it, put it in a gear to prevent the engine from moving and do the reverse when putting it back in.

thx everyone out there and i'll let you now how it goes when i give it a try. I have a haynes manual for a 74, so should help me out a bit, although its a bit different for a 1980. hopefully the distributor is the troublemaker and i didnt fry anything else.

[narfire]

Another place I get parts from is Ital Motors in Edmonton,again a great source of parts and info. they have some used stuff as well.
Take a look on EBay for a manual that covers your year,they are advertised all the time. If you pull your dist., might want a t-light to get dialed in again.(time with #4 cyl) you might be able to change the pickup without removal but setting the gap involves having the dist turn.

[So Cal Mark]

it's more likely the ign module was damaged rather than the pickup, but it's not hard to test if you have a test light or voltmeter

[restonko]

thanks mark, i thought it would have been the module too, but i have a new coil in, which includes a new module. I have a voltmeter handy so I can test components as i go, just not familiar of what readings i should get from the module, or how to test a pickup.

Coil, wires, and plugs are new. Just haven't touched the distributor because it is unfamiliar territory for me, but I think that's where my problem is now.

i've been cranking it when its jumped with my daily car, because if i get a new battery, it would probably drain that since the spider is not running yet. Also, the battery light is on when i switch the ignition is on, i think with the low battery by itself, and even when it is jumped. Not sure what the battery light tells me on the tach.

[restonko]

hey i have an update

the wires to the magnetic pickup are pretty bad. They are both red, not red and black, but worry about that later. Anyways, i have the motor to TDC, and distributor rotor pointing to spark plug #1, and ready to take the out the distributor. However, the nut holding down the distributor to the motor seems pretty hard to get to. The vacuum advance is in the way. Also, what size is that nut anyways, anyone know?

And can i just use gasket glue to fix the leak where the 2 water hoses meet the engine at the top where the timing belt cover is?

Please give me some tips on how to get my distributor out, or can i just replace the wires, or the pickup with it exposed but still in the car, Thanks!

[So Cal Mark]

no need to remove the dizzy to replace the pickup. On the water outlet, if the gasket is split you should make a new one rather than slather it up with sealer.

[restonko]

thx mark! i have some Permatex Ultra Black RTV Gasket Maker lying around, can i use that to seal the water outlet?

the ground wire from the pickup and the other 2 are pretty bad shape, hopefully putting in a new pickup will solve my problem.
Any helpful tips while putting the new pickup in? The rotor is a bit in the way of the 2 flathead screws for the pickup, guess i little fiddling around will get it out. And does it matter which wire of the 2 goes into the 2 for the ignition module? both my wires are red

[launieg]

Just pull the rotor off (noting the position, so you don't force it on wrong) to get at the screws. Be sure to put the new pickup in with it's magnetic plate (found underneath the pickup) turned the right way up. If you are replacing it (and you should), then the wires will come with connector for to go into the module, so the colors are a non-issue. The new pickup will also have a slip inside the box (at least mine did) that explains which way the new magnet goes in. Tip: be sure to give the new pickup wires enough slack inside the dizzy to allow for the advance plate to turn without tugging on them, but on the other hand don't let them rub on the shaft. Hope that helps. Let us know how it works out.

You do need to set the gap for the pickup, so unless the engine is stopped in the perfect spot, you'll need to loosen the dizzy clamp. Yes, that nut is hard to reach, but you can do it. You can also bend an old or cheap wrench to get at it a little easier. Besides, you'll want to do that to set the timing when you are all done.

Edit: Just noticed yours is a 1979. My experience with the dizzy pickup is for an '81. Might be some differences - I don't know.

[restonko]

thx Launie... ya i noticed a new replacement pickup has a connector which should be better than just wire crimp/connectors. I'll try to buy a new pickup before going at it again. I'll call up Lordco/Clemente/Italian Motors if they have a pickup I can buy locally, or it will be IAP or Vicks online.

Anyone know the size of that distributor nut? I have a socket and wrench set, so far I have no tool that can wrap itself around that nut. Maybe there is some funky tool that can get to it easier.

And if someone can explain or refer me to a posting on how i can set the timing properly, Im pretty new to this. I guess the timing marks are not on the timing cover for my year, but i dont see them anywhere near the crank, maybe its too dark and dirty down there. Also, I cant seem to rotate the engine at the crank so i was rotating from the alternator. Had to remove the water outlet to take out the yellow timing cover, thats why I had to reseal it next time i put it back. Can just see the indent for the distributor, and on the crank pulley. And on the rotor, is it the black arrow or the metal of the contact to line up.

Is it totally necessary to reset the timing, if im just taking the pickup out. Because the distributor never left the engine.

Hope everything goes well and I can get this fiat going soon. I have a set of Cromodora Turbo Wheels that I got second hand and repainted, and Ansa muffler waiting to be put on!

I just remembered, I think my mechanic took out the black tube to the vacuum advance and just plugged the tube. Any problem with that? or why he would do that?

[restonko]

ordered a magnetic pickup from Lordco... will be available for pickup in a few hours

[launieg]

Take a look at that module too (under the coil). It only costs about $30, is a GM part, so you can get it anywhere. It is nice to have it replaced when you replace the mag pickup. Be sure to follow the directions and put the dialectric grease under it. It needs to ground against that aluminum heat sink that the coil is mounted on. Keep the old module for a backup.

The distributor clamp nut is 17mm. I just bent an old and cheap wrench about an inch from the end. But a fairly short wrench will work. A socket is hopeless.

I'm not sure what you are asking, re. the "black arrow" to line up on the distributor.

The timing marks are on the passenger side of the engine. a three-pronged pitchfork thing that is mounted down low and against the crank pulley. You are right that the crank pulley timing mark is a groove on that pulley.

I suggest that you put a mark on the dizzy lining it up with a mark on the camshaft cover so that you can reset the timing to approximately where it was before you set the gap for the magnetic pickup. There is a good thread on this stuff at:
http://www.fiatspider.com:16080/f08/vie ... kup#p35990 and Manoa Matt reveals how to allow for flex in the wires and the gap.

As for the vacuum advance being sealed off, I recommend you get that working again. Probably he did that because it is not working, but you can easily check. First, gently (using a screwdriver works fined) see if you can rotate the plate that the mag pickup is mounted on. See if the shaft entering from the vacuum advance is moving in and out when you do that. That should happen. Next, suck hard on the end of the vaccum advance and see if you get that movement. If not, then you need a new vaccum advance. It should move at least a little if you suck hard Without a working advance, you will not have the timing set quite right for one of either the idle or under load, but you can certainly drive the car.

I'm not sure if I answered all your questions. Maybe someone else will chime in. Feel free to phone me if you get stuck (250-664-6717 in Victoria (Sooke to be exact). I'm in and out all day.

[restonko]

Thanks Launie. I have a new coil that i bought online that comes with a new sink and module, so don't think i need to worry there.
I will get the new pickup later today and put it in. Maybe i can just fire it up even if timing is not exact, and try to tackle the distributor nut later.

On the distributor rotor, it is a black plastic circular thing with the contact and there is a black arrow on the plastic pointing opposite of the contact.

I was looking at the driver's side for those timing marks, I guess the Haynes manual for 68-78 confused me.

And I'll check out that vacuum advance too. Just hope it fires up and runs decently so I can go to my mechanic to make sure its ready for the road. Haven't driven it since going to university.

[launieg]

That sounds different from my rotor. My rotor is a brown plastic plate with the metal tip that carries the current riveted to it. The entire rotor is attached to the centrifugal advance plate/mechanism with two screws. (The vacuum advance plate with the pickup screwed onto it is another inch lower, beneath the centrifugal advance plate.) I'll try to take a photo, but I suspect yours is a little different.

Just found a photo on the Web. This is the same rotor as mine (large flat rotor), although I have a different cap, with the plugs pointing sideways, like a hand. Also, I have a vacuum advance attached to the side, etc. But the rotor is the same



Is your rotor like this?

Edit: Okay, here is my distributor. Does this help?