Cash for clunkers the final death toll!

[So Cal Mark]

the cars are being sold to salvage yards after the engines are seized. The salvage yards are paying from $50 to $250 per car and they can sell any parts except the engine. It's a short term bonanza for the yards; that is until the market is flooded with Ford Explorer parts

[baltobernie]

I'm not happy with the "Cash for Clunkers" program, either.

They wouldn't let me trade her in ... something about being married too long

[brad131a4]

It seems that the program changes with the wind. First they were talking cars and trucks up to 15 years old now its 25. I sure hope that they are being sold to wrecking yards. The crushing part was the big joke to me talk about wasting good recyclable parts.

[launieg]

I only know what this thread has told me about the program, but I sure don't like hearing about good, working stuff being trashed. Blowing the engines so that some other guy can't use it? I wonder how many Spiders will go this way without anyone realizing. It's throw "it away" times.

I only hope it really does help a bunch of something or someone, 'cause I'm what they call a "car guy" - domestics and imports, sports cars, hot rods, trucks, clunkers, and most any auto, I love 'em! (Yes, I've taken quite a few to the wreckers when their time came, but not without a lot of consideration, and I would never deliberately wreck something so it can't be used again.) Excuse me

[So Cal Mark]

the clunkers have to be 1985 or newer, so not much worry about Spiders being traded in. And, they have to get 18mpg or less in combined EPA fuel mileage to qualify, so economy cars are pretty much ruled out. This was designed to get those horrible gigantic relics of the late 80s off the road

[miragesmack]

I wish they would ease up on the insurance and registration requirements, then I'd have a handfull of cars I could choose from. Eventually my cars WILL be on the road to pollute again, so it would benefit them to do so if they start to run out of customers at the end. Sounds like that's not gonna happen.

[So Cal Mark]

they're running out of cars, not customers

[jimincalif]

A Maserati clunker? Ouch.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 4#32419704

[kmead]

In regards to the Maser, it was worth exactly what the owner could get for it. You can pick up a low mileage Biturbo all day long for 1-2 grand, they were never great cars. Clearly there are enthusiasts who are truly lamenting the loss of this example but where were they when the car was up for sale?

Perfectly good cars of all kinds are traded in everyday, lowballed by the dealer and auctioned for next nothing to junk yards to be pilfered for a few parts and then crushed. The majority of all Fiats ever sold in this country suffered this fate, I saw more than a few perfectly good cars at Upullit and Pickapart out in Los Angeles get their badges grabbed, the glass broken and few other parts taken with the vast majority crushed.

You have to remember this program was just to move iron off the lot by giving the money directly to the individual doing the buying rather than giving it to the manufacturers. This is by far the best way to do this, letting us choose what we want versus giving the money to the makers to waste it on advertising and so on. It has done a good job, most of the lots I drive by have few cars on them unlike the rest of the summer when the same cars were on the front line for month upon month.

No one wants enthusiast cars destroyed but in most C4c cases the owners have been saddled with a car no one wants and this program gave them an opportunity to get something for the money they had spent.

[katsi]

This whole program is going to end up one giant clusterf**k. Mark my words. And guess who is going to end up with the stinky end of the stick - yep, you, me and every other jerk out there trying to eak out a decent living by working day in and day out. Where do you think the GOV is going to get all that $ to pay for every clunker turned in. Unless Obama has his SS hot on the trail of a leprechaun and his pot of gold, the gov is going to get the funds through taxation. Which, by the way; means that we as working stiffs end up with less cash at the end of the day. Their is already talk of putting some sort of computer chips in ALL cars old and new that tracks miles driven. And then the plan is to put a surplus tax on the miles one drives in any given year. Don't think it will happen? Wait!!!!!

[Kevin1]

No need to wait for a mileage based tax, some states are already running pilot programs to test the idea. Makes you wonder who's going to get stuck with the bill for installing all those GPS devices, if they go that route.
Another scheme proposes using the annual registration cycle to collect taxes based on the miles driven since last year's odometer reading when the car was registered. Won't it be fun to pony up a whole year's worth of mileage taxes when you show up to register your car?
The irony is that this comes on the heels of all these federal mandates to make cars and trucks more efficient, geting 'clunkers' off the road, funding research into hybrid and electric vehicles, and devoting billions to upcoming mass transit and rail development - all of which will reduce petrolium use, and therefore, reduce tax revenue from gasoline.
This plan also has the unfortunate side effect of rewarding the people who drive gas guzzlers (again!) by charging the same rate per mile regardless of how much fuel is used. You'll pay as much tax to drive a given distance in a 45mpg 500 as someone does in their 10 mpg SuburbiaWagon or LandCrusher.
Pretty much negates the fact that you are opting for efficiency.

[Kevin1]

One last thought - variable rates. Some states have discussed the ability to charge more according to where/when you drive. Timestamped GPS will determine your rate - higher rates for urban miles (typically fewer miles in more time), higher yet for driving during rush hour congestion, or over bridges, through tunnels, etc.

[So Cal Mark]

so it was okay to pile up huge deficits bailing out Wall St, insurance cos, banks and automakers but not Joe Six Pack? The 3 largest banks just announced 3.5 billion profits for one quarter after being bailed out. Profits made by screwing over card holders with exorbinant fees and interest. Interesting priorities you have, are you a banker or oil co. CEO?

[kmead]

Whoa there pardners!

Ease up a bit. This program was intended to move iron pure and simple. It did so, much better than anyone expected and in much less time. Ultimately this is a good thing.

Is it fair, the best possible solution, the cheapest solution. No. But it did work. It worked especially well in rural areas where farmers were able to turn old pickups and other work vehicles over.

It has also done a good job in improving the fuel economy of the fleet. The average economy of the vehicles turned in is 15.3 mpg and the vehicles bought have an average fuel economy of 24. The most popular purchase has been the Ford Focus.

Could it have been done to target manufacturers better, maybe. For example we might want to ensure that it be an American car that is purchased, but what is an American car? My Sienna is more American by content and assembly point than many Fords, Chryslers or GM vehicles as are Camrys, Accords and Civics.

Yes we are on the hook for the cost of the program, along with all the other stimulus programs. But there are positive results coming from the program. Many factories are getting revved up to produce more cars, GM has recalled 1300 workers and there are innumerable car dealerships that had liquid months for the first time in a long time.

Are there negative ramifications to this program? Yes. It likely will reduce the number of buyers in the coming months. It will reduce the number of used vehicles available for the near term, but as we all know there are always more old vehicles being dumped into the market. There will likely be other externalities that were not intended, expected or even considered, I am sure we will be made aware of them by some helpful individuals.

This program was not one that benefited Democrats or Republicans, it benefited businesses that sell cars, people that owned cars whose value or problems (condition) limited their salability. It is going to benefit the car companies, the people they employ and the subcontractors that make the parts the cars are built up from. This was a program that allowed people to make free choices in their purchases with few restrictions beyond ownership, registration and proof of insured-ness.

Personally I have never owned a vehicle that could have qualified for this program, so even if I had been in the market for a car (which I could be) under the restrictions of this program I could not have benefited. I am not bothered, I am always glad to see what were primarily used up SUVs, large pickups, old full size sedans go to their graves, especially since the vehicles bought were primarily smaller efficient cars.

I do find it interesting that in more rural areas old pickups were replaced by new pickups in many instances which will lower the fixed costs for many farms so hopefully they will be more likely to survive these hard times (dairy farms in particular).

Another thing to keep in mind is that most car owners are nothing like us. They hardly know which end of a screwdriver to hold and have to pay someone to do almost everything to their car beyond putting gasoline in it. It doesn't take much to make an otherwise good car worth very little to anyone. Look how picky we all are about buying cheap old cars and reject so many as "lost causes", for parts only or let them pass into a junk yard to be crushed. I am sure that we could save more if we just spent a bit more time and effort resurrecting them...

The vast majority of the C4C vehicles were used up, worn out cars that had very little value and were virtually unsalable in many cases, the money the owners got towards buying a new car served as a tipping point to allow them to complete a purchase. The purchase benefited dealerships all over, car makers and ultimately other businesses in the local areas.

Our government is trying to find as many ways as it can to change the direction the economy has been going. This goes back to the last administration as well with the bailout of Wall Street (because they were too big to fail) through the shovel ready construction projects and other programs enacted to try to get the economy started in a positive directions.

I live in a state where there is over 15% unemployment and work for a company that is facing a decline in sales of over 30%. Until people start spending and companies start hiring again, my employer will not see a change in sales. I am thankful for the efforts to change the course, staying the course was not working.

[htchevyii]

Well, it sounds like the program will finaly die after this weekend, unless they print a bunch more money. The dealer I work for quit the program a week ago, as they haven't received any rebate money in a month and are due over $200,000 that they don't know if they'll ever see. Our dearership has been doing fine all along but I'm not so sure how much we have benefited from the program. Sure sales are up, but there is less work for parts and service without the trades, much extra work and no money to be made selling the trade ins, (many times there's more money to be made on used cars). Add to this some of the cars we won't get paid for and our sales manager said he wished he'd never heard of the program. R.I.P.