Valve Adjustment Time...

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lordxenu

Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by lordxenu »

Well, as I said in another thread, I've got a valve clicking on the exhaust side of the car, and I think that's what's causing our miss at idle.

So, obviously a valve adjustment is in order, and since I need to take the cam cover gasket off, I'll be down in there anyway. the question I have is, how easy is valve adjustment?

Would the local parts stores carry shims that work on this car? I'd hate to have to leave it sitting all week until my shim gets in :(

Also, can I put the shims in and measure without that valve adjustment tool? I really don't have $40-80 to spare right now.
narfire
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:14 am
Your car is a: 1980 124 spider
Location: Naramata B.C.

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by narfire »

I found the shims to be the same diameter as some volvo shims. The volvo's do not go as thick as sometimes needed for the fiat. just don't go less than 3 mill thick I think it was, as the cam lobe will whack the edge of the tappet,(tapping noise).
In the Haynes fiat manual 68-78 there is a picture(adjusting/replacing valves) of what looks like a tool that will keep the tappet down while pulling the shim. Might be able to fabricate something like that. The one offered by the vendors does work well,but some fiddling is required when doing #4 exhaust (dist. opening). The IAP catalogue has a bit about how to set up a chart to help get the right shim size.
Good luck & have fun
80 FI spider
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
lordxenu

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by lordxenu »

narfire wrote:I found the shims to be the same diameter as some volvo shims. The volvo's do not go as thick as sometimes needed for the fiat. just don't go less than 3 mill thick I think it was, as the cam lobe will whack the edge of the tappet,(tapping noise).
In the Haynes fiat manual 68-78 there is a picture(adjusting/replacing valves) of what looks like a tool that will keep the tappet down while pulling the shim. Might be able to fabricate something like that. The one offered by the vendors does work well,but some fiddling is required when doing #4 exhaust (dist. opening). The IAP catalogue has a bit about how to set up a chart to help get the right shim size.
Good luck & have fun
Yeah, I know what the tool looks like, I can't fabricate it though as my(my dad's) array of tools, and lack of a garage keeps me from having a lot of fancy stuff.
With that said, I'll have the cam off the head since I have to change gaskets anyway. Would that make it any easier?
narfire
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:14 am
Your car is a: 1980 124 spider
Location: Naramata B.C.

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by narfire »

Might make it easier, but gonna have to be spot on with the measurements,as if the clearance is still not right after putting the cam tower back on and torquing it down then well... Noticed the alfas have their shim under the tappet,so I perhaps they might have to do the clearances by taking the cam towers off. It should work for you if you get accurate clearance measurements before taking the towers/cams off.
I used a workmate type bench,then one can kinda clamp the head in place,tighten the two sides and have an opening for the valves to move into.
80 FI spider
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
lordxenu

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by lordxenu »

narfire wrote:Might make it easier, but gonna have to be spot on with the measurements,as if the clearance is still not right after putting the cam tower back on and torquing it down then well... Noticed the alfas have their shim under the tappet,so I perhaps they might have to do the clearances by taking the cam towers off. It should work for you if you get accurate clearance measurements before taking the towers/cams off.
I used a workmate type bench,then one can kinda clamp the head in place,tighten the two sides and have an opening for the valves to move into.

Aah ok, we'll see when I replace the gaskets, I have a feeling I'm going to have a whole new car when I get done with this, as I keep fiddling with it the idle gets better and better, the only thing that remains is the put put sound coming from the exhaust and the valve clicking.

Just replaced the fan temperature switch and the car hunts for idle correctly now. :D

When I put the gaskets in I'm going to retime the car and make sure everything is in line, as well as replace all the belts and stuff. Then it'll be ready to go for a while, until I can afford to do suspension work.
narfire
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:14 am
Your car is a: 1980 124 spider
Location: Naramata B.C.

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by narfire »

Glad to here your going to get the nails dirty,cause they will. If you havn't done much wrenching,kinda like me, my grandfather told me a tip 40+ years ago. Before mucking about with the engine,put/wipe your hands in cold cream and let it soak in a bit. When it comes time to clean up the oil comes off easier.
Also if your in the replacing mode,PLEASE check the the rubber "donut" that is located just behind the transmision on the driveline. Any cracks/dry looking change it out,or better yet change it out anyway for a piece of mind. If that lets go holy s..t,evidently not a nice thing. The drive shaft flails about against the trans. tunnel.
80 FI spider
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
lordxenu

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by lordxenu »

narfire wrote:Glad to here your going to get the nails dirty,cause they will. If you havn't done much wrenching,kinda like me, my grandfather told me a tip 40+ years ago. Before mucking about with the engine,put/wipe your hands in cold cream and let it soak in a bit. When it comes time to clean up the oil comes off easier.
Also if your in the replacing mode,PLEASE check the the rubber "donut" that is located just behind the transmision on the driveline. Any cracks/dry looking change it out,or better yet change it out anyway for a piece of mind. If that lets go holy s..t,evidently not a nice thing. The drive shaft flails about against the trans. tunnel.
Yeah definately, my dad keeps telling me not to worry about it, but I can't help but think there's a 28 year old crusty rubber donut back there waiting to fly apart :p
So Cal Mark

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by So Cal Mark »

if you have a valve that noisy, and a misfire in the exhaust I'd expect a larger problem than adjustment. The clearance won't change that drastically without some part failing. I'd expect a cam lobe that is going flat
lordxenu

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by lordxenu »

So Cal Mark wrote:if you have a valve that noisy, and a misfire in the exhaust I'd expect a larger problem than adjustment. The clearance won't change that drastically without some part failing. I'd expect a cam lobe that is going flat
It's not really...THAT noisy, but it's definately there. I tend to overexaggerate things, it doesn't sound like the top end is going to fly apart or anything, it's just a minor click that has a definate source.

EDIT: If a cam lobe is indeed going flat, I'd hate to do it but I guess I can put the cam out of my other spider in...only problem is that cam has about 113k on it... but it never had a valve noise or anything that I can remember.

I dunno, I'll find out eventually, maybe its not so bad.
Last edited by lordxenu on Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
htchevyii
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Posts: 1807
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:31 pm
Your car is a: 1982 Spider hers 1972 Spider his
Location: Hydesville, CA (NorCal)

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by htchevyii »

I adjusted my valves a few times without the tool. I used a large flat blade screwdriver, (an old one that I rounded the tip) and a smaller flat blade driver. If you ae careful you can wedge the big screwdriver between the cam and bucket like a wedge and then stick the small one sideways on the edge of the bucket to hold it open while the larger screwdriver is removed. It's a p.i.t.a. and the small screwdriver will probabily slip out a few times, but if you only have a few valves to adjust it can be done, (I did every one of mine that way, once). There is also a special tool that you can but to hold the bucket open instead of the small screwdriver, but it didn;t work much better for me. I bought my tool from Vick's and it does work for #4 if you wiggle it just right.
Trey
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1982 SPIDER 2000, 1964 CHEVYII, 1969 Chevy Nova, 2005 DODGE RAM, 1988 Jeep Comanche
1972 Spider, 78 Spider rat racer 57 f-100,
lordxenu

Re: Valve Adjustment Time...

Post by lordxenu »

htchevyii wrote:I adjusted my valves a few times without the tool. I used a large flat blade screwdriver, (an old one that I rounded the tip) and a smaller flat blade driver. If you ae careful you can wedge the big screwdriver between the cam and bucket like a wedge and then stick the small one sideways on the edge of the bucket to hold it open while the larger screwdriver is removed. It's a p.i.t.a. and the small screwdriver will probabily slip out a few times, but if you only have a few valves to adjust it can be done, (I did every one of mine that way, once). There is also a special tool that you can but to hold the bucket open instead of the small screwdriver, but it didn;t work much better for me. I bought my tool from Vick's and it does work for #4 if you wiggle it just right.
I may remeasure them to be sure, but it sounds as if it's the #1 or #2 exhaust valve is the one that's making the noise, hopefully I'll find out soon, I need to plug this cam cover oil leak up.
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