Cash for clunkers the final death toll!

[htchevyii]

The rebate itself, (or politics) isn't what bothers me, (although it is poorly written). I'm a car guy and I like alot of cars and trucks besides FIAT"s, including V8's, (OMG did he really say that ) The pointless destruction of good cars and trucks does and as long as people can still buy new vehicles with bad MPG, what are we gaining? They should have done a rebate where everyone got a rebate on efficient cars, (even if it was less $) and then people buying there first car or that had a lapse in insurance, etc, etc could have new efficient cars too. By the way, I don't see how any self respecting car guy or home owner can be without a truck? How do you tow cars, haul parts and materiels etc?
My Wife's 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee would have easily qualified for the rebate and I would have received substantially more than I could sell it for, but I'll be damned if I'm going to see it crushed after years of good care and good service, I'd give it away first.

[katsi]

Mark. I believe the reason we are bitching about the Cash for Clunkers program is because we can virtually see and experience the stupidity behind it. On the other hand, it will be the privlidge of our future generations to be able to virtually see and experience the stupidity behind the bail outs and Obama's presidency.

[wengr]

just remember the former dictator that started us on the road to record deficits, rampant unemployment and foreclosures. Maybe we could bring him back to fix what he f##ked up . I'm just a tad confused at the lack of complaints over the trillions given away to KBR, Blackwater, Wall St, AIG, the "Big" 3, credit card cos. etc, but pages of wailing over the little guy getting a break on a new car. If I didn't know better I'd think this was a forum for CEOs instead of old Italian cars

Mark, I'm no fan of bailouts for Wall St., big 3, "Housing Crisis" etc. But why throw good money after bad? Nothing is free and there is no such thing as the little guy simply getting a break on a new car. What there is is the future of the real little guys - our children, being mortgaged so that todays voters can get a discount on a new car. If anyone can make sense out of the government passing out chinese borrowed money so that some can get a discount on a new car I'd like to hear it. I find it shameful. And the OP titled this thread COC. We need the mods to keep us on topic

[mbouse]

Not quite like being handed billions of bailout dollars, but at least the money is going in the right direction.

which direction is that? care to stab at how many of those appliances are actually assembled in Mexico? and, my grandchildren's tax dollars are being spent for me to ADD an appliance to my household? what if i dunn need one, and could afford to buy one out of my savings?

and, i say this as a Michigan employee of a stamping plant that produces components for appliances built in MEXICO. my shop may benefit, but at what total price?

it is way past time to stop shelling out cash for zero effort or productive output in return. as much as i dislike FDR, his CCC program was about the best handout program that this country has produced. at least those recipients actually worked for their cash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_C ... tion_Corps for the uninformed...

[radiopilot]

I have to side with Mark on this one... Trillions for Wall Street, banks, AIG, etc. with no real benefit to the average tax payers all while spending over a trillion in two useless wars of which I predict 4 trillion over the next ten to twenty years to bring their economies, infrastructure back to third world status after we trashed their country.

In the mean time had President Obama or the Democrats instituted a "Civilian Conservation Corps" as was done under FDR they (Republicans) would have his head on a plate... after all they all fought the Obama stimulus package and that contained hundreds of similar work projects (roads, bridges, etc.).

So here we have an actual program which got the average citizen to bring in their old clunkers for a rebate and stimulate Detroit and other auto makers motivated to hire more workers/keep production going making almost a million more cars and we have a problem with that and toss Mark around by calling him a Democrat?

Nick

[Kevin1]

Mike,
I hear what you are saying and agree, to a point. Yes, a lot of goods are made outside the US but that is just the reality of the last 20 years of moving everything offshore, and those jobs aren't coming back until we either are willing to work for Mexican wages, or we all agree to pay higher prices for goods.Outside of that we can't compete with large pools of cheap labor.
We just upgraded our heating system (a BIG deal here, winter lasts 6 months) because of the 30% discount offered by Uncle Sam under the recovery act. As far as I can tell, that $800 headed straight in MY direction, just like I like it to! That's $800 I still have to do other things with, plus I should save a heap over the coming heating season. So it does help, even though some of the products involved are not US made. The store here is making money, The delivery guys make a buck, the installers are getting paid, Then there's the taxes paid on their wages, the sales taxes to the state, excise and duties paid on the equipment I bought - a lot of it gets circulated right here at home. And the money I saved will go to other uses - most likely tuition (2 kids in college).
Had I qualified for Cash for Clunkers it would have been hard to let it pass by. But I'm holding out for the 500 to arrive before I buy another car!
Getting cars off the lots was a good result of the cash for clunkers program. Getting workers back into factories was a good result. Part and material suppliers are happy for the orders they have been receiving. Scrap yards are having a heyday. The fact that assembly happens in Tijuana or Toronto isn't that important in the whole scenario, since most large companies are global. I'm not defending the idea, just acknowledging reality. We've seen the golden age of the American Auto industry, and by most accounts, it's is over for the big 3's days of easy money.
All in all I wish other spending programs were half as well conceived as Cash for Clunkers has been.

[htchevyii]

I'm just afraid next will be "CASH FOR POLLUTERS", offering a rebate for destruction of pre emissions iron. I wouldn't be suprised at all.

[radiopilot]

Better yet we could institute a 'Cash for Iron' similar to what NYC has done except nationwide... wouldn't that be a hoot!

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs. ... feed=rss01

Make the nation safer and get the guns out of the idiots hands...

Nick

[kmead]

Better yet we could institute a 'Cash for Iron' similar to what NYC has done except nationwide... wouldn't that be a hoot!

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs. ... feed=rss01

Make the nation safer and get the guns out of the idiots hands...

Nick

Like playing with fire much, poking at tigers in cages and so on? Don't even get started on gun control... Before you were only talking about money.

[mbouse]

Kevin,

no argument today on what we need to do to bring jobs back in the states, or what wages we'll need to accept to bring work back from mexico. if you read close, i actually said that my job would be enhanced by the cash for appliances project.

my point this time round is that we're spending our grandkid's tax dollars on give-aways that we're not earning. cash for appliances? what's next? cash for wide screen t.v.'s? why not? come on... when FDR said "a chicken in every pot" he didn't include the pot, and the stove to cook it on; especially for those that already had the house, the pot, the stove, the fuel, the job, the bank account, and everything else most americans have today...

i didn't ask for my stimulus check, didn't need it. put it in the IRA account as soon as it arrived. the reduced federal income tax that came this year goes in the exact same place. fought the Missus all the way on the cash for clunkers thing.. we don't need new debt when my job is in jeapordy; and we don't need to trade in that perfectly good-paid for vehicle just because the handout exceeds its street value. and i certainly don't need a new appliance that is paid for with unearned cash from future generations.

this administration is proving to the uninformed that SOMETHING FOR NOTHING is to be expected. what is left of our work ethic in this country will soon be shredded to dust. the incentive to actually be productive and E.A.R.N. a living is being replaced with sole dependence on the omnipotent, omnipresent, self appointed-omnicient Government. how much closer to communism do we have to get before US citizens wake up?

[mdrburchette]

So here we have an actual program which got the average citizen to bring in their old clunkers for a rebate and stimulate Detroit and other auto makers motivated to hire more workers/keep production going making almost a million more cars and we have a problem with that and toss Mark around by calling him a Democrat?
Nick

So, being a Democrat is a bad thing? My comment was not intended to come down on Mark. If he thought that, I'm sure he'd be the first to set me straight.
As far as the program stimulating Detroit, the benefit was short lived and, like all the stimulus packages that have been passed, it'll take generations to pay for it all. Does nobody worry how all this stuff is going to be paid for? I didn't agree with the past administration giving out checks to everyone to help stimulate the economy and I don't agree with the outrageous spending that's going on now.

[radiopilot]

Being a Democrat is not a bad thing... being called a Liberal, Democretin, appeaser, etc. are all the labels the conservatives love to dish out when one doesn't agree with their side...

So who payed for FDR's CCC program? Didn't we all pay for that in due time over the years? No one was complaining... we're paying for the Viet Nam war as we speak... not sure if that price tag was paid for yet... sure we'll pay dearly for the two unneeded wars we're in now just as we'll pay for the bailouts and that's part of the leagacy we'll all have to deal with when we vote the wrong people into office.

As far as guns... don't get me started on why we need serious gun controls... everyday day we see and hear the results of children dying and it's not because of guns in criminals hands, most are legitimate owners of these weapons... had we not heard of the guy who killed the three women in the health club? Yeah... legitimate gun owner... it's these kooks which guns should never be sold to... sorry but no one is going to convince me otherwise... yeah I know... wait till some idiot is pointing a gun to my head in a robbery in my home, etc... Well we'll deal with it when it happens won't we?

All said I think we all have our different views and opinions and that's great... I'd rather we stick to the hobby side of the cars, it's much more enjoyable than who is paying for what program over the years as if we can really do anything about it now... best is read carefully the fine print of the next elected officials and what they're going to do when in office... I could just imaging the next war we would be in (Iran) had McCain been elected... talk about another trillion down the hole and the lives of our service men....

Nick

[wengr]

Better yet we could institute a 'Cash for Iron' similar to what NYC has done except nationwide... wouldn't that be a hoot!

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs. ... feed=rss01

Make the nation safer and get the guns out of the idiots hands...

Nick

Crazy, now they can trade in the old rusty gun, and afford a nicer bigger model, and maybe have some crack money left.

[mbouse]

nick,

the taxpaying public paid for FDR's CCC program, and i am positive that those payments ended before you and I started paying taxes, and quite probably before most at this forum drew their first breath.

i personally am calling no names at anyone. if you think that, i apologize. the fact is that communism is a redistribution of wealth, and so is our current administration's policies. i am equating giving cash away unearned is the same as communism. if the description or the moniker fits... then it fits. the Vietnam war ended about the time i became a voting citizen. i'm taking no blame or credit for that fiasco.

i'm not stepping on that doo-doo pile called gun control. won't. was not part of the original discussion.

however, i am here as a hard working, tax paying, voting citizen and i am complaining loudly to anyone that listens that i am PROTESTING giving my tax money to folks that do not earn it. the difference is EARNINGS, not the item(s) purchased. the CCC program required participants to work. the cash for clunkers program required particpants to be able to spell their name correctly, in cursive. the cash for appliances requires participants to show up at an appliance store. where is their EARNING participation?

if participation in this discussion goes against the grain, then those hobbiest can merely choose to stay out of this discussion. personally, i find it enlightening to read what everyone else here is thinking. Fortunately, the gang at this forum can practice this w/out gouging each other's eyes out... THANKS!

[wengr]

I believe many of the older appliances that will be trashed would have outlasted the brand new "energy star" appliances they will be replaced with. Imho the typical appliance from your local big box store is junk. In no way does it compare to the quality or expected longevity of appliances from decades past. It's false ecomomy, and probably at the end of the day, has a negative impact on the enviornment. Appliances or clunkers, it makes no sense other than political sense to destroy what still has a usable service life. All politics. Obviously Obama took note of another Chicagoan, Oprah, who also enhanced her popularity by giving away cars.