My spider hates my office - died this morning

[jimincalif]

Twice my spider wouldn't start, both times at my office - now I have a new starter. This morning just before turning into the parking lot my engine just quits, running fine previously. I coasted into the parking lot. Now it cranks but it won't even try to fire. I guess it can tell when I am not dressed for working on it. I assume if it just up and quits like this it might be electrical?

Is there a recommended spot to tie a tow rope? I have to get it home somehow. Thanks.

[mbouse]

quit your job!

umm... not enough data to answer your question. are you certain you have spark? Compression? Fuel? is the engine turning over fast enough, or is the battery dying?

pull a plug wire and check for spark while someone else cranks the engine. Hold the plug wire with your left hand and touch the engine with your right hand.... if your hair stands on end and your fillings fall out of your teeth.. you have spark.

Just kidding! Cheezzee guys!

pull a plug wire and put a screw driver inside the rubber boot, set the shaft of the screw driver very close to the head and crank the engine. See sparks?

[jimincalif]

The engine is definitely turning over fast enough, other than that I've not been able to do any other investigation. I will check for a spark first, since that is easiest, especially with your trick on using the hair standing on end!

I'll probably drag it home first since it will be dark when I can leave the office and won't be able to really work on it here. Any suggestion where to tie a rope?

[jpmilesdds]

Most of the starting problems I've had with my FI 81 Spider have been due to the fuel pump relay not working. [Someone correct me if I'm wrong] A failing relay can keep electricity from going to the starter or to the fuel pump. I replaced mine about 4 years and 15000 miles ago and it's failed again. I've hot wired both of these circuits to avoid the problem, but I suppose this has to be unsafe or unintelligent in some way.
BTW, the relay is available from International Auto Parts, but cost $85+.

[Gunsmith]

Don't rule out the timing belt just yet either. Let's see, I was 19 or 20 on my way to pick my 1st wife up from work and the car just died. Cranked over really well since it didn't have to turn those silly cams for the valves anymore. This was a good lesson for a young man to learn. Don't keep cranking a car with a broken timing belt and never pick up your 1st wife again. Replace them both at the first sign of trouble. It is easier and cheaper to check and replace the timing belt than the latter however.

Just look or feel under the timing belt cover and if you can move the belt easy you know what the problem is.

Also my Spiders have always been very jealous. When I take them to work or around other people or worse yet give them a ride she sometimes gets very moody about the loss of attention.

[sptcoupe]

I tink Guunsmith has it right. This is your spider's way of telling you you should bag work for a day, take her out and hammer it all day long.

[azygoustoyou]

You don't like live on a hill and work at the bottom, do ya?

[kmead]

You can tie a rope to the lower A arm near where it attachs to the cross member

You can also tie one to the cross member itself.

Your car may have hooks/loops next to each bumper shock on the car on the underside. If you have a non bumper shock car there is a bolted on bracket attached to the bumper bracket. I don't recommend using those if your car still has them.

[Gunsmith]

So what was the issue?

[jimincalif]

The immediate issue was the fuel pump clogged up. The real issue is the gas tank is full of rust. So I've pulled the tank and it is at a shop to get cleaned out, all the rust sandblasted and sealed with a coating that is supposedly impervious to gas and prevents further rust. Here is the other thread on it:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7598

I changed the fuel filter last night and nasty rusty orange-colored gas came out of the old one.

Jim

[Gunsmith]

That"s less expensive than just buying a new tank?

[jimincalif]

That"s less expensive than just buying a new tank?

It's about a wash, cost wise. But from what I learned the new aftermarket tanks don't have baffles in them, also I corresponded with someone on mira who had his new tank develop rust very quickly. Suspects it was already rusting along the seam when he got it. This "renu" process should be a permanent fix, they drill holes in the tank sandblast it clean and then seal it with some sort of coating that covers all the steel. Also ethanol blends can attract more moisture, so probably better to have it sealed anyway.

There are some do it yourself kits, but I didn't see how I could properly clean all the rust and get the coating done with 2 baffles in the tank.

We'll see, but I got a couple of strong recommendations from folks who've done it.

[jimincalif]

I finally got the gas tank back from the radiator shop that did the Renu process on it (took 3 weeks, they originally told me a week when I first called them). Looks good, they cut holes in the tank, sandblast, then coat it with some sort of finish and then bake it on. If I had to do it again it might have been faster to ship it to someone who could turn it around faster.

Reinstalled it tonight, everything went together well with the new hoses and filter. I also replaced the rubber studs that the pump and filter mount to, they were rotted out. Only hitch was after I got it all back together I couldn't get the fuel gauge to read. Pulled the sender back out, checked it over, checked continuity with the multimeter, all good. Then I realized that the tank was not grounding to the trunk floor. They painted the outside of the tank as well, and I mounted the tank using 3M Strip Calk. So I scraped some paint off under one of the tank mounting bolts and that took care of it.

Ron, I primed the system with a funnel into hose going to the pump and ran the car for a few minutes, then mounted it to the tank pickup and poured 5 gallons in the tank. Fired right up and ran for 15 minutes before I shut 'er down.

[So Cal Mark]

that's great news!

[rlux4]

Of course it did Jim. You do things right!
BTW, jpmilesdds, not sure if this was addressed, but the dual relay doesnt' have anything to do with the starter. The red wire goes from your ignition switch to the starter, and the pink one goes to the dual relay.
Ron