Need some help contesting a ticket

[boogiedude]

So I was pulled over this afternoon by an officer for speeding. Normally not such a huge deal, but claims I was travelling at 63mph in a 30 zone. Which makes it a criminal offense.

This is completely bogus. He clocked my speed using pacing, which in itself is a pretty unreliable form of speed measurement. On top of that I am completely positive I was not going anywhere near that speed. My speedo read in the low 50's and my tach read about 3200 rpms in fifth gear. Add onto this the officer was a rookie, and not even able to read my license properly(he had to ask if my drivers license was provisional and ask my age and how long I had my license, all of which are on the license itself).

Now for the help, I will be making a court appearance on the 18th of February and I need some help. I know that given the gearing of my car and rpm at the time, you can calculate my exact speed, which I hope will help to levy my case and help my argument. I have a late model 78(may 78) with stock everything. My tach read 3200, so what would my exact speed be in fifth?

If you guys have any other advice, opinions or info that that would help me in anyway, feel free to contribute.

Thanks in advance guys

Eric

[So Cal Mark]

measure your tire diameter for the equation

[radiopilot]

It's a bad day when you get a ticket much more when you must go to court... as far as contesting it it'll be tough to prove based on rpm/gearing... but you could give it a crack... here is the equation:

speed = eval(rpm * tire dia)/(gear ratio * 336)

Gearing of course you must look up for the spider with 5 speed if that is what you have...

You could always answer the judge that you had to '...cut the fuse to the bomb at the office building before it exploded...', or that '...my girlfriend/wife is having a baby and you had to get to the hospital...', you know something drastic and see if he goes along...

Seriously get some options with a lawyer before going to the bench... it'll save you some $$$ and some headaches.

Nick

[4babycar]

Mark will set you in the right direction for the calculation but I am not sure how much it will get you. You may also consider the other tactics that can help. The ones that I have used and worked were, delay/postpone your court date. In VA the original court date is set to co-inside with the officer's predetermined court schedule. If you postpone your court date, it comes up on the next available date and not necessarily a time the officer is already due in court. Here officers are required to report for traffic violations if the new date falls on a vacation day or off day. If he doesn't show the case is dismissed because you can't question your accuser. This worked once for me, I actually postponed for a legitimate reason and the officer was deployed by the time the next date came around. The other option was to simply volunteer to take a defensive driving course in lieu of a ticket and take the case under advisement. If I completed the course in 30 days and didn't have any additional tickets within a year then it would be dismissed. Just my 2 cents based on my experiences and VA laws. Good luck.

Also, I believe in pacing tickets you have the right to demand the certification that the officer's vehicle speedometer is correct for the range of speed in which your ticket is written. I have seen it work on a radar gun that the officer couldn't prove the gun was in valid calibration and the ticket was dismissed.

[carl55]

Hi Eric
Postponing the court date worked for me. I got a lawyer and that was his advice. I postponed twice just to make sure. This was in Texas.

Carl

[maytag]

I don't mind telling you that I have some "significant" experience in these matters. And I think you're taking the wrong tact on this.

Let's say the cop really is a 'rookie' (though that may or may not be true, more later); he still has had a LOT more training at judging speed than you likely have had. They don't just turn them out and tell 'em to guess. Now, I'm not saying he right; only that the Judge will say he's right. Trust me; he will.

And it's likely that the cop is NOT a rookie. 63mph is not a "lets throw this out and see if it'll stick" sort of ticket. The question he was asking you are purposely designed, and taught to law enforcement as a way to vet-out lies, half-truths, other things that would make a responder 'anxious'.

I'm a firm believer that there are crooked cops. But this isn't the hill you want to die on.
You are MUCH, MUCH better off, IMHO, going into this very humbly, and suggesting calmly that you do not think you were going that fast, as it is "outside of what your normal driving behaviors are". You could further indicate that there were no circumstances that would have led you to be speeding, and that if you were, you were certainly unaware that you were, and you are sorry, and you feel very badly, and you've learned your lesson, and promise to watch that much more closely moving forward. you see where I'm going with this.

They are NOT going to drop the ticket. It almost NEVER happens. The BEST you can hope for is a "plea in abeyance", which would basically put that ticket in a little jar, with a lid screwed-on real tight; if you have no more infractions over the stipulated time period (frequently 6-mos to a year) then they throw it away.
MORE likely is that they'll reduce it to something that carries a fine, but fewer or no points, and no criminal charge.

They're going to do this because it looks like an anomaly in your driving record (it is, right?), NOT because you think you can show you are smarter, or on higher moral ground. Even if you are.

and if it's NOT an anomaly?

well, you;re not the only guy riding the bus.

[adrians]

boogiedude, Just say -


All Spiders look like they're going fast, it's the way the car is designed and sounds, he must of misjudged the speed based on the appearance and noise levels coming from the car.

Seriously, I'll find the letter I've used twice to get off speeding tickets, - as long as to have a good record- I'll PM it to you.

[So Cal Mark]

very true about judges believing cops over perps, even though cops lie and make up evidence quite often. Claiming any reason for speeding won't help at all, there is no sympathy from a judge for breaking the law.
Cities and states desperately need the revenue from tickets these days, don't count on getting the fine reduced even if you go to traffic school, or pick up trash on the weekends.
If you get a receipt from a speedo shop that you had the speedo calibrated and it was off originally, you have a slight chance of redemption. If you can prove the speed limit sign is not visible (hidden by overgrown brush, etc) you have a chance. Cities are mandated to check average speeds on streets every so often. If this hasn't been done on this particular road you have a chance.
Here in Calif, if the officer doesn't show up, the court calls him/her and you have to wait while they make their way to court. If you qualify for traffic school, you still pay the entire fine and the traffic school fee but the ticket doesn't show on your record.

[maytag]

I think some may be missing the point in your original post that indicates that this is now a criminal charge, and not a simple traffic infraction.

In most states, anytime you are cited for more than double the posted limit it becomes a criminal charge, and depending on the state can even be a felony as opposed to a misdemeanor. (I've had these tickets in 4 states (once for 127 in a 65 ) .... the classification ranges greatly from state to state.)

Along with this is the mandatory court appearance. Not simply a chat with a hearing officer. Not something you can talk to a clerk about converting to traffic school. The criminal charge opens this to a different level, and you are wise to appreciate how big a deal this can be, if it sticks.

But chances are that it won't. If you are respectful, polite, willing to listen to whatever speech they want to give to you about the dangers of speeding, etc etc. And be ready to pay at LEAST the fine! As SoCal Mark said; they are going to get their fine out of you, no matter how the rest of it turns-out. If it remains criminal (it won't) then there is a surcharge attached that is usually close to 80% of the fine. So you'll pay twice.

Don't think that you can call and get this postponed the way a simple traffic infraction can be. You'll end-up with a bench-warrant, and if you're really lucky (as I was in S.Dakota once) you can spend the weekend in jail, waiting for a judge to get to work monday to let you out.

Don't blow-this off. Take it seriously. It is. But it doesn't have to go badly.

[Jimb]

Hmmm...I'm struggling with this one.
Why not take responsibility for your actions and simply pay up?
Isn't that why we have a police force in the first place...to keep our street safe?

Jim

[halg]

Obviously you were speeding, not knowing the tires on your car, using 185 70 13 my calculations indicate your speed was 58.26mph. Do what your conscience will allow.
Hal

[azygoustoyou]

I drive a hazmat truck for a living. It isn't whats fair. They will make it a lesser fine if you ask. All you have to do is pay up. They will want your money. I've had them drop a couple fines before with no points. You have to go to court. Talk to the prosecutor and tell them you what you would like to do. Tell them you can't afford to lose your license. You would like to make it a lesser fine. One ticket I had was for wreckless driving when I was racing my motorcycle on the streets dragging my knees around the corners of off ramps. It was reduced. Good luck

[manoa matt]

Boggie has 165SR13 tires which are taller than 185/70R13's I've got three old 165SR13 tires and they are all different heights, despite similar tread wear, its hard to find the actual size of those old tires.

If he was going 58.26mph with 185/70R13 tires then it might be possible he was going 63 with 165SR13 tires, sorry Boogie.

[boogiedude]

Thanks for all the advice so far guys, but I want to clarify some things real quick. First of all I'm not looking for a quick escape out of this. I honestly believe my innocence. I absolutely would not go 60 knowingly on this street. It is a heavily trafficked residential area, and while I do generally go above the speed limit, I travel with the flow of traffic. This occasion was no exception. Second of all, maytag is correct, it is a criminal offense. I have to make a mandatory court appearance. The minimum mandatory sentence I'm facing of convicted is
1)500-1000 fine
2)30 day suspension of my license
3)36 hours of community service or 2-5 days in prison
4)a drivers education course
5)a possible 125 surcharge

As far as calculating my actual speed, matt is right, I have 165/80r13 tires. And if 3200 rpms comes out to being 60 mph then this car is much much faster than I thought it was, and my speedo reads a LOT lower than my actual speed which means I definitely need to replace it.

Mark, you mentioned getting it calibrated in an effort to prove I was misalluded to my actual speed, how would I do that? What kind of place can I take it to?

[kilrwail]

I think you have the tire size thing backwards. The stock tires on your' '78 were 165 x 13, so the speedo should be right. If you had 185 x 13's (as I do), your speed would read too low. That is, 60 mph indicated would be about 63 mph actual (5% greater circumference). So I think you were actually doing whatever speed you saw on your speedo. Be humble, admit going too fast, ask for forgiveness and pay the fine. Good luck.