Also dead, no power.

[zachmac]

My 1980 FI Spider would occasionally just die while driving. Then, for no apparent reason it would fire back up and run fine, When dead I lose all electrical feed to the clock, warning lights, fuel pump, ignition, and emeergency flasher switch. These should all be normally unswitched, correct? Now it sits dead in the garage with the same problem.

I have battery voltage at the starter (the car will crank all day) and from there to the alternator. I also have battery volts at the single black wire that feeds fuse M/11 but no power at the double black wire next to it at L/10. Wipers and power windows work with switch on, as the should, as well as headlights on high and low beam.

I have checked the two inline fuses I found above the fuse box and they test good.

I will go thruough the wiring diagrams and try to nuke this out but anyone got an obvious answer?

Does power for the wire to fuse 10 go THROUGH the ignition switch even though it feed unswitched items?

[rlux4]

If your inline fuse holders are the original GBC (european) type, I'd replace them with new common type holders. Even if the fuse tests good the holders may not be making good, consistent contact on it. When I got my car it had an intermittent stall/ no start issue that I eventually traced to the inline fuse holder for the dual relay. It would test good but slight jiggling would interupt the contacts.
Ron

[jimincalif]

Looking at the diagrams, it looks like a black wire runs from the alternator to the L/10 fuse and also is jumped to the I/9 fuse (clock, courtesy light, hazard) and on also jumps from 9 to the ignition switch (coil, etc.)

I'd look for a fault in the wire running from the alternator to L10.

[zachmac]

Looking at the diagrams, it looks like a black wire runs from the alternator to the L/10 fuse and also is jumped to the I/9 fuse (clock, courtesy light, hazard) and on also jumps from 9 to the ignition switch (coil, etc.)

I'd look for a fault in the wire running from the alternator to L10.

New info. Wire from alternator to F10 is good, full battery volts at the fuse box. BUT, I was getting NO volts in the fuse box. I finally figured out something must be grounding the circuit. I unplugged the dual black wire coming off the top of F9 as well as the double red, blue and purple the lower feeds had connected (fused side of F10and F9. Voila, full volts at the fuse box and all of its output studs on the back. So, one of those circuits has a ground!

Next I plugged back in the double balck wire feed that goes to the top of F9, the unswitched side and I still have power eveywhere so the ground has to be in one of the fusedcirucits, correct?

BUT, any ONE of them connected gives me no volts? What now?

[zachmac]

Correction, F10 and F9 still have power with the purple fused feed connected and / or the blue fused feed connected. BUT NOT with either the double red fused feed or the double black unfused feeds connected.

That seems to eleminate the horn relay and direct feed to the cooling fan motor.

[zachmac]

Does anyone know where the green wire wirde to the same connector as the pink wire from the ignition to F1 goes? I can't find the green wire on the wiring diagrams.

If I jumper the black feed to the ignition to the pink wire at the same connector I should have 12V to F1 feed and the hot lead on the coil BUT with both the coil and feed to F1 disconnected I only see about half a volt. Whatever the green wire on the F1 connector is feeding must be drawing all the power?

[zachmac]

Does anyone know where the green wire wirde to the same connector as the pink wire from the ignition to F1 goes? I can't find the green wire on the wiring diagrams.

If I jumper the black feed to the ignition to the pink wire at the same connector I should have 12V to F1 feed and the hot lead on the coil BUT with both the coil and feed to F1 disconnected I only see about half a volt. Whatever the green wire on the F1 connector is feeding must be drawing all the power?

Green wire is actually green with a black stripe. I still cannot find it on a wiring diagram? The diagrams show a green with black stripe from the dual relay to the fuel pump but don't show that wire going to F1?

[jimincalif]

I don't see any green on my diagram either. Maybe a prior owner "enhancement"?

If one of those circuits was shorted to ground, either the fuse would have blown or I'd expect you'd have a big spark when reconnecting them and get lots of smoke if it stayed connected.

[zachmac]

I don't see any green on my diagram either. Maybe a prior owner "enhancement"?

If one of those circuits was shorted to ground, either the fuse would have blown or I'd expect you'd have a big spark when reconnecting them and get lots of smoke if it stayed connected.

The green wire with black stripe certainly looks to be factory. It goes into the connector with the pink wire as if it's been there from day one.

I definitely have a ground somewhere. The turn signals don't work, the hazard switch doesn't cause anything to flash BUT all the side marker work when the lights are on, but NOT when only the parking light position is selected. I checked the ignition swith connections as well as all of the connections for the hazard switch itself and both check out as per the diagram.

I am getting VERY FRUSTRATED at this point. How do i find the ground?????

For example, if I jump hot directly to the double red wire that feeds among other things the unswitched prong on the hazard switch and measure power at the hazard switch socket I only see less than a volt. Somewhere in that circuit I am losing all my power? That would also kill the feed to the ignition as it grounds out the black feed wires going into F9 and F10. BUT, and this is where it gets weird, if I try the same thing with the blue and white wire form F1 with direct hot and again test at that feed on the EF socket, I still get less than one volt (with the double red feed from F9 disconnected)!!!! So it seems I have a drop somewhere that is common to a both circuits!

[zachmac]

Okay, a free case of your favorite beer shipped to your house if you come up with the answer!

The latest observation is that the power at F9/F10 is full battery volts IF I disconnect the double red wire lead off of F10, AND the ignition is off. Either the red wires plugged in (regardless of ignition switch position including the ignition switch harness unplugged) OR the ignition switched on with the red wires unplugged causes the voltage at F9/F10 to drop to squat.

I think that actually eliminates the ignition switch but it points to a circuit that is common to the red wire path and the ignition on with the red wire circuit unplugged.

[jimincalif]

Okay, a free case of your favorite beer shipped to your house if you come up with the answer!

The latest observation is that the power at F9/F10 is full battery volts IF I disconnect the double red wire lead off of F10, AND the ignition is off. Either the red wires plugged in (regardless of ignition switch position including the ignition switch harness unplugged) OR the ignition switched on with the red wires unplugged causes the voltage at F9/F10 to drop to squat.

I think that actually eliminates the ignition switch but it points to a circuit that is common to the red wire path and the ignition on with the red wire circuit unplugged.

OK, so if the double red is disconnected of F10, do your side marker lights work in the parking light on position? They should if I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly.

[jimincalif]

Okay, a free case of your favorite beer shipped to your house if you come up with the answer!

The latest observation is that the power at F9/F10 is full battery volts IF I disconnect the double red wire lead off of F10, AND the ignition is off. Either the red wires plugged in (regardless of ignition switch position including the ignition switch harness unplugged) OR the ignition switched on with the red wires unplugged causes the voltage at F9/F10 to drop to squat.

I think that actually eliminates the ignition switch but it points to a circuit that is common to the red wire path and the ignition on with the red wire circuit unplugged.

The voltage dropping off on F10 with the ignition on is troubling, since this should be fed directly from the power terminal of the alternator, which is connected directly to the starter motor terminal where the big positive battery wire terminates. If you turn on the ignition you are powering up the exciter wire to the alternator. Try disconnecting this from the alternator so it does not get any power when you turn the ignition on. Do you still lose voltage at F10?

[zachmac]

{/quote]OK, so if the double red is disconnected of F10, do your side marker lights work in the parking light on position? They should if I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly.[/quote]

No, they work with or without the red wires hooked to F10 with the ignition on and the headlights turned on but neither way with the headlight switch in the parking light position. The black and white feed ti F7 from the headlight switch park positon DOES frred power to the fuse bow when the switch is in the first notch, AND the red wires are disconnected, AND the ignition is off AND it is diconnected form F7. BUT, even with the ignition off and the red wires disconnected, if the feed is connected to F7 and you trun on the parking lights, voltage at the fuse bow drops to squat and the lights don't work.

[zachmac]

[/quote]The voltage dropping off on F10 with the ignition on is troubling, since this should be fed directly from the power terminal of the alternator, which is connected directly to the starter motor terminal where the big positive battery wire terminates. If you turn on the ignition you are powering up the exciter wire to the alternator. Try disconnecting this from the alternator so it does not get any power when you turn the ignition on. Do you still lose voltage at F10?[/quote]

Sorry, no beer for you yet! The voltage drop still occurs when I turn on the ignition with the exciter wire disonnected. The only change that made is that of course the red charge light doesn't light up as the exiter wire passes through it on the way from the switch to the alternator. BTW, the alternator is one of the "upgraded" units from Auto Ricambi and both it and the original worked fine prior to this problem. AND, I had this happen a few times intermittently with the original and with the replacement so I do not suspect an alternator problem.

I am starting to think double relay or ECU?

[zachmac]

I am starting to think double relay or ECU?[/quote]

Disconnected brown and white fuse to combination relay and still same, switch on, power drops. Probable not relay / ECU. Damn!