Why are car dealers so sleazy?

[jimincalif]

Just a rant, need a place to blow off steam. Looking for a used car for my daughter. Something like a Sentra/Yaris/Corolla/Civic/etc. Not too big, ideally 3-5 yrs old reasonable mileage, reasonable condition, maybe $8K. From what I've seen of ads etc., this should be doable. But then I go and look and try to engage and its all games. And Craigslist, what's with all these people who are obviously dealers advertising in the FSBO section? If they're not honest in the ad placement, what kind of POS are they trying pawn off on me?

Sheesh.

[/rant]

[SLOSpider]

Yeah I hear you screaming. You might try Auto Trader or a like magazine. Craigslist is hit and miss but sometimes you can get a decent deal. You can expect about a 3-4 thousand dollar mark up they are getting on a 8k dollar car at the dealer.

[spidernut]

I'm a financial advisor and I teach a car buying class, so this might help in your search. SLOspider is right - used cars have a $3-5K markup above what the dealer has into the vehicle (called wholesale invoice on used cars) if you go to a major dealership or a place like CarMax. They actually make more on used cars than on new cars.

An example is my 04 Civic that I purchased new for $12,250 (Value Package, 4 door) via the internet sales department. Dealer asking price was $17,800. I drove it for three years and put 36000 miles on it and sold it back to the same dealership for $600 less than I bought it for. They put it on the lot for $15,500. It sold very quickly.

If looking at a used car at a major dealership, visit the salesroom, test drive it thoroughly and get a CarFax report. If you like the car, write down the stock number and politely leave the dealership. Call the used car sales manager at the dealership and introduce yourself. Do not do this in person - it should be done by telephone.

State that you're interested in buying stock number XXXXXX if they still have it and ask him/her to pull up their wholesale invoice. Let them know that you don't buy cars through the sales department because you're a business person who doesn't have time for haggling back and forth via a salesperson - you only work with the person who can make the price decision and that's the used car sales manager.

Let them know that you'd be interested in the vehicle starting at $500 over wholesale invoice (this is the price that they sell the cars to other dealerships by the way) provided it is a fair price. If the price works for you, make an appointment to come in and buy it. If not, provide them with your name and phone number and give them a price that does work for you. Let them know they can call you anytime they're willing to sell the vehicle at that price. Do not agree to come in and discuss the vehicle. That's a come-on to dump you into the salesrooms.

I have done this with/for many clients. It works very well with most dealerships. However, some are jerks and will just blow you off. That's fine. Just take your business somewhere else and find someone who will work with you.

Craigslist is another decent source for cars. There is a filter for cars by owner and cars by dealerships. Though people violate the posting policy quite often, you can usually tell which is which. I bought my kids a 1999 Mercury Tracer with 65000 miles, clean CarFax, one owner, no accidents, in amazing shape for $2200. It was a Consumer Reports recommended buy for under $4K. The one suggestion I have is to monitor Craigslist multiple times per day. Small dealershis snap up most of the good cars the first day. I missed out on several really great cars by procrastinating.

Whatever you do, run a CarFax report or request one from the dealership. You don't want to by someone elses' lemon or wreck!

Be patient. There are good cars out there for a good price. Always hold your ground on price and terms and never work thorugh the sales department.

Don't forget to look at prior daily rentals from major companies such as Avis, Hertz, National, etc. You won't find much in the $8K range, but there are some reasonable buys. I highly recommend looking into aftermarket mechanical breakdown policies on prior rentals. People aren't always nice to rental cars, but the major brands have less abusers than the minor "discount" rental companies.

[SLOSpider]

Thats spot on advice ! Good write up. My dad does something similar, he decides what he wants to pay for a car out the door and if they say no he just walks. He then gets calls and he tells them what he will pay for the car and that he really does not need it. After convincing him they agreed to his price he went down there only to find the $$ had magically grown he he stated "I told you I would pay you X amount out the door period! and walked out to his car followed by the sales manager. The sales manger then apologized and stated they would do the out the door price and come back inside. Pops said NOPE, you can send someone out with the paper work. Within a few minutes a girl with papers and a chair came out while pops signed the papers in his car lol. He told her " I bet this is the first time you had to do this outside. She responded that in fact it was.

So like Spidernut stated, stick to your guns to get the deal YOU want not the stealership.

[jimincalif]

Yeah, I understand the game and don't want to play, that's what's so annoying. They just want to get me in there and then drag it out, been there done that, don't do it any more. I looked at a car on Saturday, drove it, went home, did my research, and have made them a serious offer via email on Sunday. In reply all I get is "can you come in today?" No acknowledgment of the offer, no counter, nothing. Yet the car still sits on their lot. I've done the walkout before, works great and both times the next day I got a call and ended up getting the deal.

On the local Craigslist, so many ads are reposted several times a day, and misposted, and loaded up with keywords of other models it takes a lot of work to wade thru it all. Yes it is easy enough to identify the dealers posting as owners, all you have to do is google their phone number and see all the craigslist ads in google's cache with the same phone.

Carmax - they seem to be about $1000 over comparable cars at dealer lots (which are already on the high end). I guess they figure this is the premium their customers are willing to pay to avoid the pain.

[katsi]

When you are in craigslist looking, their is a blue word after the add that says dealer or owner. Click owner and all the dealer adds go away.

[baltobernie]

Don't know about CarMax, never used 'em, but I'd have to vote "No" on the recommendation of an ex-rental car. As a group, they are the most brutally-driven vehicles on the road. I've probably driven a hundred of them over the years, and often had cars nearly out of engine oil, nearly flat tires etc. I don't think they ever get serviced; just driven for 12 months and sold.

If you can go $8k, is there any chance you could throw a few more in the pot and get a new Fiesta, etc.? Warranty, sometimes free service ...

[NJFIAT1981]

May I suggest a Volvo? They seem to last forever if properly maintained. They are probably the safest car on the road and can be purchased used for a decent price. That's what I purchased for my wife and daughters and have not been disappointed yet. Seems like I have a fleet of them at my house
On a professional note I have never pulled a seriously injured or dead person out of a Volvo. I have seen a couple Volvos that looked like they should have been fatal accidents. People were standing next to the Volvo asking if their totalled car could be fixed. Not a scratch on them and the passenger compartment intact. I told them to buy another Volvo and play the lottery

[fiasco]

I've purchased from CarMax multiple times. In my experience, the prices were comparable to other sources for good quality used cars. That is, higher than "Quality Used Cars" dive around the corner, but lower than what I found at dealerships. The reason I buy at CarMax is because the cars are generally in good condition, and I can buy a very good warranty. I've had my most recent CarMax car for almost 5 years now, and have had multiple systems repaired or replaced (including a complete transmission rebuild) for just the $50 deductible. When buying a 4 year old American car and keeping it for 5+ years, you've got to expect these kinds of repairs no matter where you buy it. Plus, the service I've received from their Service Departments has always been great.

-- se

[Gunsmith]

Yes I hate the dealer games as well. I was fortunate enough to have been taught by a car buying master at the ripe young age of 18 and that man saved me tens of thousands of dollars easily. The dealer game would not bother me as much if they didn't treat you like a complete idiot that has never bought a car or been under the hood before. I have no problem with anyone making a living but I am not willing to get completely hosed for it. I expect them to earn their money with their exceptional service in preparing and handling my transaction as well as their product knowledge. I get very annoyed trying to buy something when I know more about it than the jerk trying to sell it to me.

I second the Volvo safety plan. I have known many people that have been spared serious injury by having one. If you can find a decent non-dealer shop to maintain it, it should not be too expensive to keep humming along.

[Danno]

One thing I like to do is to test the dealer. I pride myself in knowing a lot about many different vehicles. I imagine I'm not the only one like that here (this being a auto enthusiast's forum and all). I like to ask questions that I know the answers to in order to see what they'll say. 95% of the time they lie or make up some BS. even worse when I'm at a Ford Dealership (for example) and the guy doesn't know crap about Fords.

[jimincalif]

Testing dealers - when I was looking for a Spider, I looked at an 84 at a used car lot. While I'm looking under the hood, the sales guy points to the distributor and says "I don't see too many carburetors anymore".

[htchevyii]

I vote to stay away from the rental cars, (I know 3 guys that rented a Supra and all raced it at a hillclimb). As for the Volvo's the last two we had traded in had bad auto transmissions, and I hear the Chinese just bought the company so ?? I work at a dealer and from an insider's point of view, I can tell you that yes you are going to pay more than private party, but we also spend alot refurbishing cars. What does every one do when something expensive is wrong with there car? Trade it in of course!! A few weeks ago we told a customer ther CRV needed a new head, come Monday morning a nice trade in CRV with the check engine light on and of course the salesmen are never sharp enough to know. We spent $2000. fixing that one. I do agree that many salesman are douche bags and I hate dealing with them, even at work.

[Curly]

May I suggest a Volvo? They seem to last forever if properly maintained. They are probably the safest car on the road and can be purchased used for a decent price. That's what I purchased for my wife and daughters and have not been disappointed yet. Seems like I have a fleet of them at my house
On a professional note I have never pulled a seriously injured or dead person out of a Volvo. I have seen a couple Volvos that looked like they should have been fatal accidents. People were standing next to the Volvo asking if their totalled car could be fixed. Not a scratch on them and the passenger compartment intact. I told them to buy another Volvo and play the lottery

I never thought that I would ever be a Volvo owner. Those cumbersome, sluggish boxy sedans and wagons of the past 20 years really tainted my opinion of the marque, and no matter how safe they may have been, they just didn't appeal.

HOWEVER ....

This is my wife's new car We were out looking for a new MINI Cooper S or VW Golf GTI or perhaps a BMW 1-series; but this Volvo C30 T5 ticked all the boxes very nicely. My how Volvos have changed .

[travish86]

I was out of work back in 2006 and needed a job, any job. So I applied all over town and one of my first bites was Lithia Motors as a salesman. I went to the course for two weeks to be taught how to slant a perspective just enough to get someone to do things my way rather than their way. I never went to work for that company after the class, it felt wrong that they toought us how to appeal to all sorts of demographics and how to focus their attention on things they would want for a higher price and ther is a car 3000 cheaper a few rows back with all the same stuff they need but we would never show them if it made us more money. I ended up giving in and getting a job from my step-daad as a Contracted Underground Miner, something I swore I would never do. But I made great money and now I miss doing it I loved it. Really how many people get to handle hundreds of pounds of explosives daily.