Budget 2.0 (2L) build

[fiatfactory]

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[fiatfactory]

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[maytag]

Steve, Dood... I'm trying really hard to not take offense to your passive-agressive style of posting. I can relate to the "my way is the only right way and everything else isn't worth it" mentality, as I happen to be the same way when it comes to construction. Difference might be that I know I'm WRONG about that, and that there are MANY "right" ways..... they just don't make sense TO ME.

I understand the whole idea of cost / benefit. I get it. I know that there are places where I can spend just a LITTLE more and see significant gains. The problem is that I' not good at knowing where to stop. There is a never-ending slope of "Well, I've already gone this far, it doesn't make sense to not take the next step..."
I let SuperBike racing consume me that way for too long. It cost my family way too much. I won't do it again.

SO: IF you can't live within the budget, then you should start a new thread that is called "the Gospel according to Steve".

If I were to go back through and add it all up, you HAVE in fact added SIGNIFICANT machine-work that was not intended to be a part of this BUDGET build. You have also added SIGNIFICANT money to the build, not to mention TIME. You said condescendingly that if this were a true-budget build I would hone the cylinders and take my chances! That is in fact EXACTLY what I intended to do until I pulled the head and discovered the damage to the rear cylinder. So now I have to bore, which means new pistons. Is there more I can do? Certainly. but I'm already beyond my projected and agreed-upon budget. (it didn't help that I had to buy two motors instead of one, and I had to drive 500 miles for one and 1300 miles for the other)

I really am trying to take your advice. You clearly know what you're talking about, more than I do. But I also have to keep the rest of the factors in-line here. And if you are selling something, this is the first I've heard about it. I would be very, very happy to spend my money with somebody who has helped so much with the technical side. I have absolutely appreciated your help and technical savvy, both in this thread and others to which you've contributed. But if you want me to buy from you: I gotta know what you're selling!

To be fair to you, it must be frustrating to come across a guy like me who doesn't like math. I told you in a PM that my brain shuts down when anything resembling algebra comes into play. Do I MIND doing the measuring? YES. I hate it. Do I recognize that it is vital to a proper build? YES. so I'll do it. I will add that it is very frustrating when piston vendors don't KNOW the specs on the pistons, like CH, flycut-volume, etc etc. SO I'm left with trial and error, or asking what others have done. You seem to think like an engineer. I think like a salesman. that makes us PLANETS APART in some ways. Sorry for that.

I'll try searching a little harder on the Euro & Aussie / NZ sites for parts. Or I'd appreciate it greatly if you wanted to tell me what you'd sell the ones you have for? but if I CAN'T AFFORD THEM.... DON' GET MAD AT ME!

[maytag]

there's even a set (in standard size) on ebay italy right now.... http://cgi.ebay.com.au/S-PISTONI-FIAT-C ... 255672c6b8 ... I found these within five minutes of searching.

SteveC

listing in Italian, with absolutely ZERO reasonable-indication (to me) that these are for a Fiat TC. "Cromoa-Thema" ? ? ? no clue what that is. "Svizzera" ? ? ? ? what does THAT mean?
No indication of bore size, let alone CH, dome, etc etc.

Why don't you tell me what you'd charge me to source the pistons and a 105tc/100s head, and ship 'em to me.

[mdrburchette]

Maytag, have you tried Vick Auto (http://www.vickauto.com) to see what pistons they have available? They may have some oversized performance pistons in stock and at a far better price than having them custom made or buying them from overseas.

[maytag]

Maytag, have you tried Vick Auto (http://www.vickauto.com) to see what pistons they have available? They may have some oversized performance pistons in stock and at a far better price than having them custom made or buying them from overseas.

Not yet, but I will. I appreciate the suggestion. I don't see any reason why the ones that Csaba is selling won't work in my application either.

[narfire]

I have IAP's 8.9:1 Mahle flat top 84.4 mm. Seem just fine to me. I have a set of Vicks 8mm pistons as well in a box and might use them in a 1800 engine I have on a stand. This thred is great for any future engine builds, but what I get so far is the piston choice is important, but the head and fuel in and out and cams can really make the difference.
Chris

[Daniel]

The 8mm dome pistons have never been a good choice .... on a few levels most on the reason have been talked
about already but if the KS Brand can be sourced some where i would highly recommend them, there castings were very
very good the Germans make the best stuff hands down ! the domes were small don't remember size now but about 4mm
nice rings never had an issue with them . I haven't seen any on the market over here since late 90s early 2000s but
after working with these pistons that was the only type i would work with unless custom were needed .

Thanks for all the input Steve ill keep my eyes open for the 100s heads when i make a trip out to your neck of the
woods my buddy and his wife have made an open invitation to stay over there so it's in the works maybe next year ?
i would love to see Sydney and other parts of Au if i can make it happen !

Any how Steve i think i get where your coming from and know its hard to go backwards after doing your own builds
and research i've been there and done that ! If you can point a few of us in the right direction as far as finding
the KS Pistons that would be amazing or maybe make the group purchase happen some how i would be willing to join
in that take care !


Daniel

[fiatfactory]

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[fiatfactory]

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[Daniel]

Most of the pistons sold by the US vendors will be around the 38.45CH accoring to the manufacturers specs that I have for Mahle, Kolben Schmidt, Mondial and Borgo/AE, added to this sometimes they manufacturer alters the CH to maintain the original compression ratio when the engine is overbored...so you really need to ask the vendor what the CH is before you commit to purchasing anything...

The Vendors here have been selling the same types of pistons in the US for many years now and with improper
CR ratings to top it off for some reason . Listing for the 8mm Domed pistons has been under rated as 10 to 1
or 9.8 to 1 by one or two of them for a long time !
When ordering pistons if they are out of stock it's never clear when they will be in stock again and play it out as if
maybe never sometimes !!!! or what brands and specs will arrive we seem to be at the mercy of those who import
the parts . I've never had a good solid answer on anything Piston related from the main vendors over here, one
of them isn't in Business anymore or sold more or less to another company now that i delt with many times .

It's my perception from my dealings with them for more then 20 years now that they aren't properly informed of
the specs or just don't care as long as they sale the parts or maybe both ? i really don't know why the correct
information isn't posted . i've known about some of this for a long time but am forced to select what i can get my
hands on or do custom pistons . When you through Custom piston prices at someone who wants a engine rebuilt
it's never a good deal price wise !!!

[maytag]

yes, I've been failry frustrated at the lack of info available from (many) of the vendors of these types of parts. They've recognized that there is a market for them, and so they sell them. That's great, but they lack any information about much of it, and so repeat things out of context, or with blanket statements that are at best misleading, and at worst completely false.

It's nice to have knowleadgeable folks like Steve and many other contributors on here.

Before anybody else gets any ideas on buying what Steve has listed above, I've GOT PM'D DIBS!

I'm WAAAAy over-budget... but still excited!

[narfire]

Last year Ital Motors in Edmonton had a set of 85mm pistons available. They used to race fiats and Alfa's years ago.

[fiatfactory]

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[maytag]

I like it!
but righ tnow, I'm getting scared by freight rates from NZ!!
anyone know any secrets?