Starter not turning (AGAIN)

[dfuehrer]

Hello everyone,

About 1 1/2 years ago, I asked this very same question here. Ultimately, the installation of a new starter then seemed to solve the problem. Now the issue has returned. I'm not sure if it is the starter unit itself or something else. Just don't know where to begin...

Last night I started my 1978 Spider to pull it out of the garage where it has been sleeping quietly since last fall. It started perfectly, so I pulled it out onto the driveway to idle up to temperature while I began my spring cleaning of the garage (the reason why I started her in the first place). When she reache operating temperature, I shut it down and continued my garage chores. When I was finished, I went to start my car back up and, nothing. No click from the selnoid, no cranking of the started motor, no life from anything under the hood at all. The dash lights all come on, the radio plays.

What the hell?? Does anyone know why would this happen? When it happened 1 1/2 years ago, I had been a a long drive with her. I can possibly understand something getting hot and maybe burning out, but last night I only had it running for 20 minutes! Is there wiring somewhere I can look at for loose connections, etc?

I am at a total loss! Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!
Don

[lglade]

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[lglade]

Here's a good place to start:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32884

[124JOE]

try the ground at the battery grab the wire and tug it
then the positive wire
if you have good connections
then go under the st colum
and look at your conectors for the key switch
also then look at the silinoid wire be sure its not bare and grounding out on anything

hope this helps.joe

[ekstrandt]

Ignition switch? To confirm while it is not starting, check voltage at the starter battery terminal (baseline). Pull the ignition switch wire from the starter solenoid. Have assistant turn the key to start position and check voltage from the ignition switch wire. If less than the baseline voltage you can try and clean connections (especially the bullet connection) to see if it improves when you test again. There is a thread somewhere that had pretty good instructions (lots of pictures) on how to rebuild/repair the ignition switch. Hope this helps.

[RRoller123]

Check that first block connector just downstream from the ignition switch. It is notorious.

Pete

[DieselSpider]

The easiest and quickest way for me to check a starter is to just check that the battery cable has power at the starter and then use a starter test switch or even just a short piece of wire to jump power from the battery terminal on the starter to the ignition switch terminal on the starter solenoid. If the starter solenoid does not click then the solenoid has failed and if it does click and the starter does not turn then the starter motor has failed however if it all works and spins the engine then the control wiring from the ignition switch or the ignition switch itself has failed.

$10.99 Mechanics Remote Starter Switch (you can keep one hidden inside the car for emergencies):

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-re ... 35448.html


A starter solenoid can draw between 10 to 15 amps and an iffy ignition switch can cause it to fail. I like to put an inexpensive universal relay, that draws power to switch on the starter solenoid directly from the battery lead, between the ignition switch and the starter solenoid to take that 10 to 15 amp load off the ignition switch protecting both the starter solenoid and the starter contacts in the ignition switch along with the wiring connecting them all together. I was loosing starter solenoids and starters every few months until I did this. The ignition switch that can't carry the 10 to 15 amp load of the starter solenoid will usually work for years with just the milli-amp load of a universal 40 amp automotive relay on it.

I have not lost another starter or starter solenoid since I took the load off the ignition switch with the relay. If the car does not start well now I look at the alternator and charging system. I have the alternator being rebuilt now because a Specter Air filter fell off the turbocharger inlet and the steel band clamp on it shorted out the built in regulator but that's unique to the 4 wire Hitachi alternator on the SOHC diesel.

[dfuehrer]

Not sure what I'm looking for on a "notorious" block connector. All the wires appear to be seated snugly into both ends, and the connector itself is, well, connected.

If it is my ignition switch taking out my started solenoid that is not good news. The starter and solenoid were new last spring. Is there a wiring diagram somewhere here that shows how to install the relay spoken of? Getting really ready to give up on this car.

Don

[RRoller123]

On mine, this connector is a non-locking type and comes slowly apart and goes intermittent every few months (or it did until I fixed it). Would cause the dreaded "click of death". The plastic housing is brittle, the fast-on type connectors inside may be sloppy and not fitting all that well.

I pulled it apart, and reconnected each of the individual lines. Absolutely solved the problems.

First connector downstream of the ignition switch. (I think this is stock on my car but cannot say for sure)

C31:





Reconnected individually, with heat shrink, and Ty-Wraps:



Pete

[DieselSpider]

Not sure what I'm looking for on a "notorious" block connector. All the wires appear to be seated snugly into both ends, and the connector itself is, well, connected.

If it is my ignition switch taking out my started solenoid that is not good news. The starter and solenoid were new last spring. Is there a wiring diagram somewhere here that shows how to install the relay spoken of? Getting really ready to give up on this car.

Don

Same basic wiring as if you were putting in a relay for the headlights or anything else in the car.

Get a universal 30/40 amp automotive relay and mount it on the firewall/fender then wire up the relay as follows using 10 gauge wire on anything that you add using the terminals on the relay marked 30, 87, 85 and 86:

Connect the line from the ignition switch that is currently attached to the side of the starter solenoid to 85.
Connect 86 to the ground pod.
Connect 30 to the battery stud on the starter putting a waterproof spade fuse holder in the line with a 15 or 20 amp fuse in it.
Connect 87 as the line out to switch the starter solenoid.

That way when you turn the key to the start position power feeds in through 85 to energize the relays coil which is grounded by 86 so that fused power directly from the battery fed in at 30 feeds out to the starter solenoid through 87.

Provided that you have a good fully charged battery the starter solenoid will now get full power and throw more solidly so that the starter gear engages better and the power contact inside the starter solenoid is not bouncing and sparking and is now providing constant full power to the starter motor.

Now if its taking more than 3 seconds of cranking to start you need to address whatever fuel or ignition issues you have so that you are not cranking excessively. Past 5 seconds of cranking the starter is getting hot and by 10 seconds its incrementally burning out so you want to address excessive cranking whenever you experience it.

[dfuehrer]

Thanks Diesel! The step by step seems simple enough. Think it is in my skill set to do this! I'll post when I've added the relay, to let you all know how things went.