It needs to be said - Fiats suck

[spidernut]

Before you all blast me for saying this, I'm not talking about our classic Fiats. I love my Spiders. However, I am talking about the newest Fiat lineup. It needs to be said and I am highly disappointed in Marchionne and the Fiat team. It doesn't help the Fix It Again Tony stigma.

1. Worst reliability of any make per JD Powers and Consumer Reports
2. Worst resale value of any make
3. Worst selection of vehicles
4. One of the lowest customer satisfaction levels
5. Huge number of complaints about the service departments
6. Extremely low sales volume

Despite the charm of the Fiat 500, it has the worst blind spot I've ever seen in a car including my friend's panel van. The back seat is more like a torture device. The 500x has some charm, but pales in comparison with its competition. The 500L? Send it back to Italy and keep it there. The Spider is nice, but the interior and trunk are disappointingly tiny.

I just don't understand why Fiat would take the same unsuccessful approach that they took back when they failed in the US market in the 70s and 80s - limited models, poor quality, poor parts network and poor service. They just seem clueless about the American automobile market. Americans want more than style and they demand top-notch reliability. When I read that Fiat had 273 defects per 100 cars compared with the industry average of 147 defects per 100 cars, I was just disgusted.

I would really like to see Fiat succeed as a car company. It will not happen until Marchionne gets FCA's act together.

[dom]

It is what it is. What you are witnessing is the difference in character between the Italian and the Japanese. the Italian is driven by passion, excitement and style at the expense of reliability and practicality. The Japanese are about efficiency and practicality at the expense of passion and excitement. The Germans obsess about engineering and perfection but can't match the style of the Italians. The 500 has style but not first rate quality, the civic is boring but has bullet proof reliability. The day the Italians to stop drinking espresso and stop eating sausage and switch to green tea and tofu is the day their
cars will be reliable. don't hold your breath.

[njspider]

Well said.

[baltobernie]

The day the Italians to stop drinking espresso and stop eating sausage and switch to green tea and tofu is the day their
cars will be reliable. don't hold your breath.

Owners of Ducati, Luxottica, Iveco, Benetton, DeLonghi, Beretta and New Holland products (among others) might argue there's nothing wrong with the Italian diet. Poorly-run companies design and build inferior products.

[dom]

The day the Italians to stop drinking espresso and stop eating sausage and switch to green tea and tofu is the day their
cars will be reliable. don't hold your breath.

Owners of Ducati, Luxottica, Iveco, Benetton, DeLonghi, Beretta and New Holland products (among others) might argue there's nothing wrong with the Italian diet. Poorly-run companies design and build inferior products.

All high end companies making stuff we don't really need and that's why my wife loves Italian products
If you were getting a heart transplant and your choice of a heart was between a Ferrari or a Honda which would you choose? I'll take the civic model thank you. Now if I was getting my jewels transplanted give me the Ferrari the Italians can make something reliable but it won't be inexpensive and reliable

[Frog2Spider]

My 2 cents worth is basic.

When in Rome (read USA), do as the Romans (read Americans) do.

I get what Spidernut is saying. Reasonableness warrants that to be successful in the US, you need to build a competitive product (read vehicle).

It's simply unsubstanable to build a crappy car, and expect it to do well, because the Fiat badge just doesn't have enough 'passion', to offset the the well built cars we can choose from!

Dave.

[AriK]

[pwilliam]

but that A pillar and quarter lite.....

[djape1977]

did it ever occur to you that what fiat makes works very well in all other markets?

[spider2081]

did it ever occur to you that what fiat makes works very well in all other markets?

Agree with quote. Fiats are nitch products. They meet the needs of some but not all customers.
We purchased a 2012 500PE and have had little trouble with the car. I think its a fun car to drive and like it a lot. Could be more powerful but then probably the gas mileage would not be as good. I didn't expect a perfect product that was going to be manufactured on a new assembly line with new employees. This car now has 70,000 miles on it.
We purchased a new 500L in early 2014. Right off the dealers lot it had a coolant leak, the thermostat neck cracked and we had to wait a couple weeks for the part. It then took a while to get use to the transmission. this car has 30,000 miles on it and we really like it also. My biggest complaint with the 500L is the navigation system is painfully slow to program. I wish its navigation system worked as easily my grand daughters Ford Escape. My wife and I are very happy with this car also.
I do feel the dealer network to support the Fiat line is terrible. There are way too few and they stock too few parts.

[Squidders]

Before you all blast me for saying this, I'm not talking about our classic Fiats. I love my Spiders. However, I am talking about the newest Fiat lineup. It needs to be said and I am highly disappointed in Marchionne and the Fiat team. It doesn't help the Fix It Again Tony stigma.

1. Worst reliability of any make per JD Powers and Consumer Reports
2. Worst resale value of any make
3. Worst selection of vehicles
4. One of the lowest customer satisfaction levels
5. Huge number of complaints about the service departments
6. Extremely low sales volume

Despite the charm of the Fiat 500, it has the worst blind spot I've ever seen in a car including my friend's panel van. The back seat is more like a torture device. The 500x has some charm, but pales in comparison with its competition. The 500L? Send it back to Italy and keep it there. The Spider is nice, but the interior and trunk are disappointingly tiny.

I just don't understand why Fiat would take the same unsuccessful approach that they took back when they failed in the US market in the 70s and 80s - limited models, poor quality, poor parts network and poor service. They just seem clueless about the American automobile market. Americans want more than style and they demand top-notch reliability. When I read that Fiat had 273 defects per 100 cars compared with the industry average of 147 defects per 100 cars, I was just disgusted.

I would really like to see Fiat succeed as a car company. It will not happen until Marchionne gets FCA's act together.

Don't take this the wrong way, however....

1. Really..what year was that in? There have been some fire and major safety, recalls on air bags of other makes in the US.
2. I buy a car cause like it, not what I am going to sell it for. Initial sale price, tariffs, exchange rates and availability are other factors that influence resale.
3. Made for a Euro market where compact cars are the norm. That's a matter of opinion too. The 500 is the most successful of all revived models. Compared to the Mini or Beetle.
4. Expectations and perceptions don't always equal reality. Is this industry as an average, on volume of cars sold, Is it a Net Promoter Score?
5. Is this a FIAT or dealer service issue? These service departments, do they specialist in only FIAT, ALFA, Ferrari, Maserati? Or other US or Japanese/ Asian Cars?
6. Is this solely a FIAT issue or does FCA and or the dealers have any input into the marketing or sales in the USA?

I am not having a go at you spidernut, its just that sometimes there are other underlying issue that will influence or explain why!

[RRoller123]

I have no real interest in this topic, but I do want to add one thing that I have been surprised about. And that is the lack of variety of models that they have offered in the US market. One of the key Marketing and Sales points of any successful campaign is to provide your customers with multiple paths to other products in the family as their needs or circumstances change. The incredibly long length of time that the 500 was the only offering here was a terrible mistake, imho. Very odd strategy.

[aj81spider]

There is a set of underlying issues. Fiat is building the wrong car for the US market at a level of quality that is not acceptable in modern auto manufacturing. Unsurprisingly that is resulting in low sales (lower than both the Beetle and the Mini).

First, Americans don't like tiny little cars. In the 500's entire category a total of 109,000 cars were sold from a total market of 17.5 million (about 0.6% of the market). The category above it, "subcompact cars," only sold 460,000 cars (a whopping 2.6% of the market).

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/01/us ... r-end.html

The 500 was the second worst seller in their category ahead of only the Scion. That's because by every objective measure the car is poorly built and the dealer network provides lousy service.

In my opinion, if you are buying a car in the US, the only reason to buy a Fiat 500 is because you think it's cute and that overrides every other consideration, or because you are so loyal to Fiat that you will buy anything they put out (sorry to all those members who are loyal and bought 500's). For about the same money you can get the much larger Civic or Corolla, which have reliability and satisfaction ratings that are through the roof, which get equivalent gas mileage, and which you can resell later for a much higher percentage of what you initially paid.

It's not rocket science to be successful in the US car market. Build what people want at a reasonable quality level. Hyundai broke into the US market and is very successful - without the advantages FCA has of the already existing Chrysler dealer network. That Fiat is not being successful with those advantages is evidence of how mismanaged they are.

[pwilliam]

For the same money you can get a restored 500, which will only appreciate in value. Comfort, air conditioning and all other modern amenities we are used to are out the window, but hell, its the original!

[spidernut]

aj81spider - you said it well.
Squidders - 2016 JD Powers and Associates Vehicle Reliability Report and Consumer Reports Automobile Reliability Survey among others