Clattering

[CASAPilot]

My engine has been making a clattering noise, almost sounds like a diesel truck. I use the correct oil, with a zinc additive, and while I can't always get 91 octane ethanol free, the noise is present even when that's what I'm running. I used the screwdriver to the ear trick and found the noise and found it's coming from the top end, intake side, more intense closer to the front of the car. I let the car cool indoors overnight and took some clearance measurements, found the two intake valves closest to the front end had much too little clearance so I popped in some new shims. Unfortunately the clattering did not go away, might even be a little worse now but I can't really tell. I think I solved an unrelated problem and whatever is causing this noise is still lurking. I took it to my mechanic, he took a proper stethoscope to it and believes it may be a lifter problem. His advice was to try and source a replacement engine and have it ready for when this one decides to go, be that weeks, months, or years from now, as he thinks that would be the least expensive way to go about this. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced these symptoms and if there's anything either of us may have missed.

[ORFORD2004]

If it come from the top, why don't you remove the head yourself and bring it to a mechanical shop that rebuilt engine. They will inspect it and if you need parts, Autoricambi will be able to supply. Your mechanic that tell you to have an engine ready should not working on a Fiat. You rebuilt Fiat engine. And at the same time you will put a new water pump and timing belt and that's always a good ideas.

And don't forget to redo the valve adjustement when you rebuilt.

Go Go Go you can do it.

[TX82FIAT]

I was thinking the same thing. Seems like this is a top end head issue. I would not wait to fix it or it very well could become a lower end issue that would be an engine replacement. Who would replace the engine for you?

[CASAPilot]

I was thinking the same thing. Seems like this is a top end head issue. I would not wait to fix it or it very well could become a lower end issue that would be an engine replacement. Who would replace the engine for you?

What sort of top end head issue would you suspect, and what would be the best way for me to go about identifying it and resolving it? Unfortunately, valve adjustments like the one I just completed are the most complicated work I've performed, I'm very eager to take on something more advanced but I may need to be pointed in the right direction. I have a manufacturer service manual that's served me very well so far, what section should I be reading up on?

[18Fiatsandcounting]

A few questions that might help us figure out what could be the issue:

1. Did the clattering appear suddenly, or has it gotten worse over time?
2. Does it make the noise more when the engine is cold, warmed up, or both?
3. Any chance something is loose, like the timing belt cover or a bracket or the like?
4. Any chance it's the water pump?
5. How's the oil pressure?

Valve issues are more of a "clicking" sound, whereas "clattering" could mean things like your rod bearings are an issue. Or piston slap or something like that, but these sorts of things develop over time.

-Bryan

[ORFORD2004]

Take a compression test

[CASAPilot]

A few questions that might help us figure out what could be the issue:

1. Did the clattering appear suddenly, or has it gotten worse over time?
2. Does it make the noise more when the engine is cold, warmed up, or both?
3. Any chance something is loose, like the timing belt cover or a bracket or the like?
4. Any chance it's the water pump?
5. How's the oil pressure?

Valve issues are more of a "clicking" sound, whereas "clattering" could mean things like your rod bearings are an issue. Or piston slap or something like that, but these sorts of things develop over time.

-Bryan

According to the previous owner, it had been making it on and off for some time. It's at its worst with the engine cold but is always present. It seems to disappear at around 2200 RPM but it might also be that the clattering becomes a constant buzz rather than disappearing, I can't tell. It hasn't gotten worse (in terms of sound), but 4 months ago it would occur inconsistently (sometimes you'd fire it up and it wouldn't make an appearance the whole drive) and now it's consistent. Nothing appears loose from watching the engine, I can't see anything physically rattling that would make the noise, and the stethoscope seems to put it as coming from the top end on the intake side. Haven't checked the water pump, I'll have to take a look. Not sure about oil pressure, unfortunately I haven't gotten around to installing the oil pressure gauge yet so I'll have to check it the old way.

Take a compression test

My mechanic did a couple weeks ago when I did the electronic ignition swap, he said compression was excellent.

[CASAPilot]

Small update, from reading other threads I'm starting to think it may be play in the cam pulley on the intake side. A common theme in these threads was the bond between the resin pulley and the metal bit in the center going bad. I can't tell if my pulley is a resin pulley or metal one, I put a magnet to it and it didn't stick which suggested to me that it's not metal, but the whole thing is so blackened that I can't visually tell. The symptoms match what people with this problem described. I could only see it from the rear because of the large plastic shroud that covers the timing belt. Removing it looks a little bit involved, but when I have time I'll remove it and see if it is the cam pulley that's causing the issue.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I don't use resin pulleys for this very reason. If your cam pulley is resin and is coming loose, your intake valve timing may have slipped a little. Let's hope that clattering you hear is not the piston hitting the valve...

I know it's a pain to remove those timing belt covers, but at this point it sounds like replacing the cam pulley and resetting the cam timing is a good idea. Don't forget to "time" the auxiliary shaft pulley as well.

-Bryan

[redcars]

The advice you are getting so far is good. On a side note, if your engine is stock you don't need more than 87 octane fuel.