Clutch and Shift Lever Question

Kevin Bischel · Post by **Kevin Bischel** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:58 pm

Perhaps someone can comment on the following. Our 1981 Fiat Spider has the 5 speed manual transmission. We recently purchased it and I am trying to get familiar with the car and its characteristics (53,000 miles). How heavy should the clutch be and how much force should be required to operate the shift lever when shifting gears? The clutch feels spring loaded from the start of movement. I'm not sure this is a problem or the normal setup. All the gears can be shifted into without any gear grinding or other problem but the shift lever takes a fair amount of force to move around. Another observation is that when the car is parked, the shift lever moved to neutral (out of gear), and the clutch released, a soft "whirring" sound can be heard from the area of the transmission. Pressing in the clutch stops the noise. Is this normal or does something perhaps need adjustment? I have a friend with a late 80's Alpha Spider and he says his clutch is easy to push in and I hope to drive it soon as a comparison. My everyday car is a 2004 Honda Accord with a 5 speed manual. The Honda's shift lever operates much smoother and the clutch is much lighter but I don't expect that's a fair comparison. Love the Fiat Spider and having replaced the fluids and belts, I am now trying to figure out what may need adjustment as the car was stored for a long time, hence the above questions. Any comments would be appreciated. Best regards and thanks in advance.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:57 pm

the clutch pedal should be fairly easy to depress. If it tekes alot of effort, you may have a binding clutch cable or even a defective pressure plate. The danger in leaving the situation as is, the firewall may crack or the clutch pedal may bend and crack. I'd disconnect the cable at the clutch fork and move each piece to determine where the extra effort is required.

The noise in neutral may be the input bearing in the transmission or the bearing inbetween the input and output shafts. It's pretty common to hear some whining in that position, as long as it's not too loud. Have you drained and refilled the trans, or at least made sure the fluid level is okay?

The shift lever should move easily also, but without any looseness. The shifter fits into a couple of cups that allow it to pivot. Normally the problem is looseness. Is the clutch releasing completely? The proper adjustment is about 3/4 " free play at the top of the pedal

Kevin Bischel · Post by **Kevin Bischel** » Fri May 19, 2006 8:51 am

Mark,
Thanks for your comments. First, I have drained and refilled the transmission fluid. I used Red Line MT-90. I didn't notice a difference in the transmission before or after changing the fluid. I will try to release the clutch cable and investigate whether anything is binding. I don't think I have 3/4 inch of freeplay in the clutch pedal, my memory is that the pedal seems to be loaded immediately but I will double check that. The force to depress the clutch is not so much that I am worried about bending a pedal it is just heavier than I am used to and the load is immediate. I don't have my manual in front of me, but for earlier models the manual gave instructions for clutch pedal adjustment. For my vintage, the manual described the clutch pedal as being "self adjusting". I will need to look into this further. Thanks again for your help. Your comments are always appreciated.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:21 am

the clutch is certainly not self-adjusting, it must be done with the two nuts on the end of the cable at the clutch fork. Even though it doesn't sound plausible, the clutch pedal will bend at the top where the cable attaches. It's very common and will cause cable binding and shorter-than-normal cable life.

dadicool · Post by **dadicool** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:47 pm

I have the same problem
do you think the presure plate can be the cause? if so, how can i check it without lowering the transmission?

thanks
sha-ron

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:32 am

you have to use a process of elimination that leaves the pp for last. Disconnect the cable and make sure the pedal and cable move freely. With the cable disconnected, you can also move the clutch fork on the input shaft to make sure it moves easily. Inspect the top of the clutch pedal for bending and cracking; this results from excess pressure on the pedal

dadicool · Post by **dadicool** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:00 pm

I disconected the clatch cable and tried to pull the fork with my hand- it was hard to pull
should i chaing the PP?

thanks
Sha-ron

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:31 pm

you will only be able to move the clutch fork thru it's free play. Once it contacts the pressure plate it will require more effort than your hand to depress the pressure plate spring. The fork should move very easily from the back of it's travel up until it touches the plate

mlynch003 · Post by **mlynch003** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:56 pm

Our 82 Spider has a fairly heavy (in relation to most Japanese cars) clutch effort. Our car is correct as I can make it. The shifting should be smooth and almost effortless, with little freeplay or slack in the shifter. Compaired to many front drive cars the shifter on the Fiat is very much superior in feel and action. I have a Mazda Pickup and the Fiat shifts slicker but the clutch requires more effort. Many owners and service people mistakenly use regular GL5 gear lube in place of the correct Oil. The RedLine oil sounds correct. I use Castrol Full synthetic gearbox oil in my Fiat. I notice a little more noise at idle but the trans shifts smoother and with less effort with the Castrol oil. Never use GL5 Hypoid oil in a FIAT transmission, this is not the correct oil and causes syncro and other problems.

Mad-Machine · Post by **Mad-Machine** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:50 pm

Correct, the wrong fluid in the trans can quickly ruin it.

Also, many automotive pundits of the era, some of whom never considered the fiat spider a real sports car, all had one thing in common. They all loved the smooth and precise nature of the transmission.

The Clutch on the other hand, is heavy compared to many modern cars. It is certainly a lot heavier than my Hyundai Tiburon's. It is however, much lighter than the Porsche I once owned.

perthling · Post by **perthling** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:48 am

Binding within the clutch cable itself is a fairly common problem, buth the clutch cable can be replaced relatively easily (if necessary) or removed then work through with some motorcycle chain lubricant which works well in lubricating inside the cable sheath. Also, check your earth from the body to the transmission - if you have a dodgy (or no) earth then the cable acts as an earth, heats up and melts the inner sheath resulting in heavy clutch syndrome.

dadicool · Post by **dadicool** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:54 pm

Wait a minute I like to understand something.

The clutch cable can bend INSIDE the cable rap? could it be that simple.

Should I or shouldn't I be able to press the fork with my hand ? i cant even push it 1 inch....

thanks
Sha-ron

jacksplace · Post by **jacksplace** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:52 pm

Once you've taken up the slack, you won't be able to move the yoke against the clutch with your hand unless you create a mechanical advantage. It's spring loaded and stiff.

perthling · Post by **perthling** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:55 pm

The clutch cable slides inside its sleeve but because it does a 180 degree turn it can bind up internally.

dadicool · Post by **dadicool** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:13 am

Call me "stupid" but i still could not understand the simple check i need to do in order to find out if my cable is bend inside it's sleeve....

Maybe its the language barrier...

Thanks for the patience...
Sha-ron

Clutch and Shift Lever Question

Clutch and Shift Lever Question

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